(32) comments Back to story

Michael Grimler

Good shooting.

Nothing to see here.

Move along.

Khal Spencer

I think I just won the Poe's Law Award for the day.

Mary Ellen Gallegos

Is that so?

Mike Johnson

[thumbup] Clearly.....

Mary Ellen Gallegos

Khal Spencer Jul 10, 2021 10:36am

It is clearly society's fault. We didn't have enough roving bands of social workers, and the DA did not find an appropriate form of restorative justice.

The problem with this whole "its society's fault" stuff is that it relieves us from our responsibility to be to some degree, masters of our own fate.

Thank you for acknowledging that it is "Societies" fault, and stop minimizing it by calling it "stuff," the struggle is REAL and if there were resources for us, things like this wouldn't happen, but, it started long ago and it's time to fix it.

Rachel Thompson

I appreciate Khal's link. I don't claim to be an expert in police tactics, but obviously the approach I asked about is something that looked practical enough so that it took a great deal of study to decide it didn't work enough.

What I cannot for the life of me understand is the hostility toward my comments. "Absurd" and "one of the stupidest comments I've ever read." Whassup with that?

Khal Spencer

Hi Ms. Thompson. Sorry about the backlash. There is so much polarization with how folks see the police nowadays that I suspect anything that looks like criticism gets a truckload of grief and anything that looks like unqualified support for the police gets a truckload of grief. Its a hard, thankless job.

You question is a good one and has been around the block a few times and requires a logical defense, not a pie in the face, which is why the various police agencies and courts have a strong defense for the center mass policy.

I took a Citizen Police Academy class up in Los Alamos when we moved here from Honolulu and one of the things we discussed was the Tueller Drill, i.e., how fast can an assailant cover 21 feet and beat your brains out. Turns out pretty fast. The Tueller drill has been criticized as simplistic but only because people take it as gospel rather than as an example of the perils of close quarter situations.

There are probably other good pieces on this topic, but I stopped at that one.

Take care.

Rachel Thompson

Thanks, Kahl. In a different vein, I would like to know how many times police were called to that home, if any, before Delia Cervantes' death.

Khal Spencer

Given Mr. Santana's mugshot above, it looks like there were previous encounters with law enforcement. The paper should dive into these questions.

Khal Spencer

"Authorities have not confirmed Santana's date of birth, but an Edward D. Santana of the same age has had numerous criminal charges in Santa Fe County, according to New Mexico court records.

The charges, dating back to 2011, include counts of aggravated battery, battery on a household member and child abuse. The man has been convicted only on a minor traffic violation."

From what I know about DV cases, its often not a matter of the convictions, but about the number of times the cops have been called and folks don't want to follow up with pressing charges. So one is going on conjecture rather than adjudication. Sigh.

Mike Johnson

If you have no military of police training about what to do with people who want to harm or kill you, it is a reasonable question to ask. Few people have that training and experience, but those that do, which includes me from Vietnam, you try to remove the threat completely, or neutralize it, so trick shots are not recommended.

Rachel Thompson

Why is it not possible to shoot to disable rather than kill? If the person doesn't have a gun, why not shoot them in the lower body to keep them from coming?

Donald Sure

Really?

Khal Spencer

Rather than reinvent the wheel,

https://www.police1.com/patrol-issues/articles/why-shooting-to-wound-doesnt-make-sense-scientifically-legally-or-tactically-6bOdYvNUEECtIWRI/

Lee DiFiore

Rachel, your comment is absurd. I for one am glad there are 3 less parasites in the Santa Fe area who spend their days preying on the rest of us.

Khal Spencer

Ms. Thompson isn't the first person to suggest that nor the last. I thought the Police1 article explained the question rather well.

Rachel Thompson

If I were to take the same approach with respect to men who kill their current or former intimate partner, which happens almost 4 times a day in this country, per the CDC, a lot of women might be safer. But I don't think you'd favor that, as I don't.

Lee DiFiore

I'm OK with death for men (and woman) who "kill their current or former intimate partner". Wouldn't cost me a minute of sleep. What I'm not in favor of are state's that impose the death penalty and take decades to carry it out or never like in CA.

Mary Ellen Gallegos

Daniel is not a parasite, he is one that the system let down. Please have compassion two people are dead! You don't know the entire story do you? How dare you act as if you are superior to Daniel! Daniel got lost, and there was no-one there to help, his Mom was just as lost. Why not for a change, let's take care of everyone, not just the chosen few. Daniel obviously had a drug problem. He wanted to DIE! Don't you see that? It's called suicide by police. Come on all you Harvard graduates open your eyes. There are two systems working here, one for Whites, and one for the rest of us! Where were the resources when Daniel needed them? How could he afford the services. Everything is extra work for us! Let's be the change!

Khal Spencer

It appears Daniel had plenty of previous run-ins with the law. I think I will withhold judgement as to whether this is society's fault or the fault of the individual or more likely, a combination of both. That is, until this paper, should it choose to do so (and I wonder if the deep dive costs more in reporter time than the paper allows) tells us more about the history of this situation.

As far as "two systems"? Sure, there are two. One for the haves and one for the have-nots. There are plenty of poor whites in the U.S. who are just as much out of the loop as everyone else. Its a class issue that determines resources (of course with the intersectionality of race, ethnicity, etc), egged on both by the populist, replacement theory right and the self-righteous identity politics left. Maybe we ought to think about income inequality for all, as King did during his Poor People's Campaign, rather than make comments (and that goes for all of us) that divide us along racial or ethnic lines. The easiest way to keep things circling the bowl is to engage in these circular firing squads.

I understand the frustration many have with the system failing all of us. The constant shootings in places like Albuquerque, and now closer to home, is getting people to want to demand instant answers. Reading on the four cop shootings, it seems all of the recipients of police bullets were repeat offenders. I'm not going to blame "society" for all that unless one ascribes to the theory that Uncle Sam should be totalitarian and completely control our lives and choices. Drugs are certainly a scourge and there are scumbags out there who will encourage others to get hooked so they can make their own money. I had one uncle who had to kick a heroin habit and a nephew who finally had to choose between a drug-addled wife and the health of his twin daughters. He had to divorce the wife.

May the dead rest in peace and may we all learn from these terrible outcomes.

Mary Ellen Gallegos

I stand by everything I said, white people that are poor, still get treated better and more fairly, more options open up for them than a person of color.

The whole story is the entire system failed these people. Most of these people want to die, because that is the only way out of the laws that are unjust for our people. We cannot afford recovery, only jail time is afforded to us. Daniel was born in 1974 in Santa Fe, NM, people that were born and raised here were mostly Hispanic, the lucky ones worked for the State, and their kids went to Catholic Schools. Santa Fe was all Catholic, people were having 13, 14 and 15 kids. Only the Father worked, the Mother was in survival mode, while the Father, went and had drinks with their buddies and came home drunk and beat their wives. We had no hope, we were given no chance, and then you judge us when we explode. No, it’s not right and it’s not fair.

Diego Mondragon

I am too, Lee. I would have loved to hear about a fourth, with that little waste of life/space, punk who shot that innocent elderly man who was just walking his dog. Man, I wish that thing was not existing on earth anymore.

Diego Mondragon

Or perhaps THAT was societies fault too and he was the innocent little angel?

Khal Spencer

It is clearly society's fault. We didn't have enough roving bands of social workers, and the DA did not find an appropriate form of restorative justice.

The problem with this whole "its society's fault" stuff is that it relieves us from our responsibility to be to some degree, masters of our own fate.

Diego Mondragon

Agreed Khal!

Richard Reinders

Because if you miss he beats your brains out with the fence post, before you have another shot.

Denise Jimenez

[thumbup]

Steve Martinez

A wounded person can still fire back.

Janet Lucks

The guy just killed his mother! I understand what you're saying but if someone is in the process of brutally murdering someone...mother?...in a psychotic rage there is little time to assess the situation...especially if he's coming towards you...I frequently used to return a little dog to that house that was often roaming Bishops Lodge road as I live close by....very sad for all involved especially the mother....

D. Stark

Janet, I live close by as well. I can’t help but be concerned for the poor dog. Do you think it is alright?

Mary Ellen Gallegos

We have no pets Ms. Lucks, not sure what house you delivered a dog to.

David Brown

Why not call 15 social workers and a Pendergast priest?

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