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BARRY SILVER

DAVID HATCH.

took ur advice about eating our words.

I began with,

WE HOLD THESE TRUTHS TO BE SELF EVIDENT.

Jav Sun

It should be mandatory that high definition surveillance equipment with anti tampering of footage be running 24/7 in businesses period. Unfortunately my gut feeling says this is a hoax committed to collect griefing money. I hope I'm wrong so prove me wrong...

Jim Klukkert

Jav Sun- Are you now accusing India Palace owner Bajit Singh of falsely reporting vandalism?

By your perspective, this is fraud, criminal behavior, committed by an immigrant of color.

Is that your claim, Jan Sun?

Jav Sun

Dining businesses were hit particular hard during this pandemic. If charged and convicted of fraud may there be mercy based on the circumstances.

David Hatch

The lengths that these extremest left groups will go in an attempt to manipulate America and our election. It's so pathetic.

It's such an obviously manufactured hate crime that it's somewhat ridiculous.

David Hatch

What a completely obvious fake hate crime. Because Santa Fe is so known for it's prolific white supremacy.

Give me a break, the whole thing is such an obvious setup.

Deb Curr

I have a question. Let's say that it IS the same people who perpetrated this horrid attack and defaced the monument. Why does that automatically make them those nasty lying looting thieving lefties? Couldn't it just as easily be those violent racist right-wing Trumpites?

Robert Christie

Yes, Deb Curr, it is even much more likely that right-wing racists did this deed, since not only were the epithets of the racist kind, but the research on political violence in the US demonstrates that the vast majority of racist violence and hate crimes are committed by racist/fascist sociopaths, many of whom btw flock to Trump.

John Onstad

Robert:

Wow. "You need your head examined".

John

Comment deleted.
david J.

I have to agree with you , Tom.

Dan Frazier

I have never been to India Palace. Never even heard of it. I hope it will re-open so that I can check it out as soon as it is safe enough to do so. Painful and demoralizing as this experience has been, maybe the publicity will turn out to be a blessing in disguise.

Robert Christie

Yes, Dan Frazier, but I would suggest that the biggest blessing, though not so disguised, is the outpouring of both sympathy for the Sikh victims and the gracious fundraising to help them come back stronger. They say that "what goes around comes around." Well, the Singhs generous support for the homeless shows who they are, and the good people of Santa Fe expressed the age-old value of mutual aid by humans for one another in their GoFundMe and other contributions.

Philip Burton

I come from the kind of people who did this. Believe me, racism and hate are taught from the cradle; too many fail to wake up in adulthood to think for themselves. This brings me to tears.

BARRY SILVER

relax. be happy. take umbrage. or, get p'd off. use a digital newspapers' commentary option to get even for high school slights and life's failures. it's all around us and has been for hundreds of years.

it's that can we keep kicking down the road, mistaking its movement and clatter for accomplishment, resolution and progress.

its that hook so conveniently placed, it can't be ignored when fear and confusion overwhelm us. or it's our usual scapegoats who, when the traditional scripts are exhausted by repetition, our imaginations create new ones........unresearched and unexamined.

does anyone else hear fiddle music in the distance or detect whiffs of smoke?

Kathy Fish

If this post weren't so incoherent, you might get a bit more traction. Otherwise, it just seems like you're fumbling to defend terrorism. By the way: It's = it is. Next!

Carolyn DM

"...a hoax"! Of course! The ignorant Right's favorite excuse when they can't grasp facts.

Emily Koyama

What facts do you have, Carolyn DM? Do you know for a "fact" who did this?

Do you know their motives for a "fact"?

No, you don't. Until the police find out who did this, those questions remain unanswered.

Robert Bartlett

"Federal prosecutors have announced the arrests of more than six dozen people on charges ranging from murder to arson to looting in connection with rioting that grew out of protests over the death of George Floyd in the past five weeks."

Jim Klukkert

Robert Bartlett has this from an inside source on deep background! Details at 11!

Daniel Valdez

OMG!!! I encourage everyone including the FBI to zoom in and analyze the photo in this article. Baljit (owner of India palace), has his back to a wall that has the racist graffiti in all caps. This all caps graffiti is eerily similar in style and script as the graffiti that reads Tewa Land on the vandalized obelisk. Just FYI...

Andrew Lucero

BINGO Daniel... I noticed the same thing!

Kathy Fish

Like, what's being implied here? I'd check a few other graffitied sites before you go jumping to conclusions. And if you've really got a concrete suggestion, I'd spell it out, or go to the police - posting here won't get you anywhere. Walk the walk if you're planning on making wild accusations against....anyone.

Robert Christie

It is very sad to witness so many examples of denial, diversion, and wild speculation that so dominate the forty-some comments I just read here, along with a few thoughtful comments on civility vs. violence. Amid the smoke and mirrors, we might want to consider just the limited facts that we all know. A sikh citizen's business was vandalized, including classic racist spray-painted slogans of the extreme white-suppremicist kind. Even Antifa, that not so organized collection of young activists opposed to racist-fascist violence (who would do better to strictly limit their behavior to defensive actions) are summarily blamed for what by all indicators is a classic hate crime against an example of feared and hated OTHERS. What is generally denied is the racist origins of mainstream US culture, from the genocide of Andrew Jackson to the slave patrols for which the second amendment was an excuse, to it continuation in the routine racist violence by some police. The most likely suspects in the restaurant vandalism are those who espouse the very racist ideas expressed by the vandals. "False flag"? Give me a break; that's the weakest form of denial of the racist strain in America I can imagine. The one heartening outcome of this whole mess is the community support for our neighbor in the form of the GoFundMe campaign and other folks who stand by the principles of civility and mutual aid. Santa Fe may not be "better than that," but it can be.

Robert Bartlett

So in your view, had Antifa/BLM burned down the subject store, it would not have been a hate crime, just a mostly peaceful protest. And you speak of diversion?

Jim Klukkert

Robert Bartlett- Another one of Bartlett’s Fallacies of Logic, this one the ’Straw Man Device.’ In this type of FALLACY, one exaggerates the position of one’s opponent and then argues against this falsely constructed exaggeration.

No Bartlett, Robert Christie in no way excused the fact that this vandalism is a hate crime, an act of terror calculated to intimidate people of color.

Bartlett, your ridiculous exaggerations of Robert Christie’s well intended comment is transparently badly intended. You seek to score partisan political points on behalf of the Right, at the expense of our community specifically, and people of color in general.

Shameful, but fairly typical of your sad displays on these pages.

Robert Bartlett

The only hate on this thread is coming from the likes of you.

Jim Klukkert

Robert Bartlett cannot answer critiques that question his logic, except to say his critics are hateful.

Must be a lonely life Robert.

Robert Christie

That's a rather obvious twisting/transforming of what I said in attempting to assert your "Fixed News" assumptions. Had anyone else but the actual perpetrator done that disgusting deed, it would still be a violent hate crime.

However, contrary to your baseless assumption, there is no evidence that either Antifa or Black Lives Matter folks have ever engaged in such behavior.

In any large demonstration, some juveniles (by age or mentality) engage in vandalism and looting while police are not looking. But that is an entirely different matter. The broadly multi-racial, multi-generation, and multi-ethnic protestors against police killing of Black folks have been peaceful.

This Santa Fe violation of civility was a straight-up racist hate crime, by someone who probably doesn't even know the difference between a Sikh, a Moslem, or a Buddhist.

Get over these anti-civil rights tropes.

Emily Koyama

If, as you seem to suspect, (and, I suspect, you hope) this nasty act of vandalism was perpetrated by a roving band of white supremacist Trump supporters, why are we not seeing similar "Trump 2020" tags sprayed all over our city? Seems like this was targeted at the restaurant for reasons far more complex and nuanced than is first apparent.

I wonder if Biden, or his PACs, will try to use the photos in upcoming campaign ads?

Robert Bartlett

This is where we are. A couple of punks can play the politically correct poobahs like a violin.

Comment deleted.
Pam Walker

So agree with you Tom. True President Trump supporters would not do this. This kind of thing is just another way of trying to take him down. Surely not everyone is falling for all of this. My heart goes out to the owners of this establishment. Don't blame all of us because of some paid actors spreading hate.

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Mike Johnson

Indeed, that is why the police are investigating this as connected to the plaza monument vandalism, the same group did both.

kyle renfro

with the quality of NM education made worse by MLG, they probably thought the Indian Restaurant meant Native American and targeted it. Also, It took 3 hours for the police to respond, what an outrage. Webber, Padilla and his gang were probably trying to figure out evidence

B. Rosen

Whatever your politics, whether you are long time residents here or new arrivals, you’d think we could all agree that what was done to this family’s restaurant was wrong. Racism is wrong. I fear that that racist-in-chief in the White House has made the bigots and hate mongers amongst us feel vindicated. I also fear this won’t be the last attack of this kind. We used to be proud of being a melting pot in this country, now we are becoming excessively divided by race, religion, politics, etc. From everything I know about the Singh family, these are really good people who have contributed a lot to our community. We should all come together in utter rejection of this act and everything it represents.

Mike Johnson

This is curious, could it have been the same group?....."Additionally, Deputy Chief Paul Joye tells SFR police are considering possible connections between this incident and the vandalism that defaced the Plaza obelisk. The two crimes are believed to have been committed in the same time frame overnight on Sunday, June 21. According to Joye, police are collecting surveillance videos from the area, but they have not released any information about potential suspects or leads."

Khal Spencer

Michael, is this being reported somewhere?

Mike Johnson

Santa Fe Reporter, the SFNM will not report that, for obvious reasons.

Mike Johnson

Here is the quote:https://www.sfreporter.com/news/2020/06/23/police-classify-india-palace-vandalism-as-hate-crime/

Comment deleted.
Kathy Fish

Yeah, this is some serious abuse. Reported!

Janet Eduardo

Gee, a whole lot of things said and written lately about people who aren't "true locals" trying to change things and now an Indian restaurant is vandalized with white supremacist BS. Who could have seen that coming. As long as you have people, including city council members, who are willing to foster an us against them rhetoric, you will be inflaming those who only need a small push toward doing something totally disgusting. This man came from somewhere else and tried to change Santa Fe for the better. But some people have issues with that.

Just glad to see that most of the citizens of Santa Fe are standing behind this man, although some of the comments on here are quite reprehensible.

Elisabeth Wooster

I was going to say that I know that here in Santa Fe we are better than this. Then I read some of the comments. Apparently, a lot of you aren't.

Kathy Fish

Don't get discouraged by those trolls. Folks with lots of hate and nothing better to do love stirring up anger, fear, racism, and anxiety. The cruel attitudes of those who jump at the chance to spew vitriol should only elicit pity: What poor, sad, hateful, lonely people they must be. Please don't lose hope. We ARE better than this.

Angel Ortiz

I absolutely love all the theories being tossed around this incident. Bottom line is that there is no excuse for this restaurant to have been vandalized. Whoever is responsible are ignorant racist, sick individuals. I hope they are identified and protected. They are obviously predators who thrive on placing fear into minorities. Gutless.

Angel Ortiz

Correction. Prosecuted not protected.

Victoria Villareal

This seems like another Jussie Smollett incident.

I'm no Private Eye, but yeah, why not prey on the inflammed white folk who are feeling guilty for being white and have money to pump into a restaurant's re-modeling.

Comment deleted.
Jim Klukkert

jeff jones- Are you now accusing India Palace owner Bajit Singh of falsely reporting vandalism?

By your perspective, this is fraud, perhaps a 'false flag op,' perpetuated to foster continued unrest, formented at least in part by an immigrant of color.

Is that your claim, jeff jones?

kyle renfro

being in one of the most expensive property location you would think they would have camera footage.

Marie Naphsid

Bingo kyle renfro!

Jeff Assad

Regardless of who committed this atrocious act of vandalism, we can only hope they're prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. This is appalling and barbaric no matter who did it.

Richard Reinders

Partly this happened as a result of the current administration went along with the angry crowd and showed no backbone or strength. These anarchist know they really won't be pursued. The Democrats are letting the angry crowds all over this country run the show like Seattle with the administration saying they will not prosecute.

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Richard Reinders

Jeff I agree there is something up someones sleeve, why did Webber go to all this effort for 100 signature petition they say"if it doesn't make sense its probably a lie"

Khal Spencer

Interesting way the New Mex covered the two incidents. Here, immediately a headline goes up "Vandals strike...". In the case of the obelisk, its "obelisk is spray painted". Gee, does anyone besides me see a double standard?

Jim Klukkert

Khal Spencer- I am surprised and disappointed with your response. Given the very violent, extensive and long history of racist, physical assaults upon people of color, and yes, recent attacks on inanimate objects, I would have hoped that you could discern the difference between two types of criminal behavior. The former is too often mortal and irreversible, an attack on property can be reversed and healed.

The vandalism of this minority owned restaurant must have been very truamatic for the owner and his family; this crime has a very personal element that the defacing of the obelisk does not. This attack definitely merits a different sort of coverage.

Your comments Khal, are most often very thoughtful and sensitive to the issues at hand. I am afraid you missed the boat on this one, friend.

Khal Spencer

The paper seemed to delay reporting the vandalism of a monument. Monuments have powerful meaning, both positive and negative, to the larger community. Therefore, destructive acts to monuments have the potential to stir up anger, retribution, and return violence in the community and therefore such vandalism needs condemnation. The Journal reported the messing up of the "inanimate object" a full day sooner than this paper did. So I do wonder if there was editorial discretion in the way the two events were handled. But that is conjecture, not fact.

Trashing the restaurant was deplorable, scary, and more personal and given I married into an immigrant Punjabi/UP family, I am understating my anger with the trashing of the restaurant quite considerably. Further elaboration is not necessary as it is personal. But if the paper wants to use a form of the passive voice in one case and the active voice in the other, while rushing one story to the front page while putting the other back on the rear of the first section of the paper, one wonders why. Both events have the potential to cause further damage to the community in different ways. Neither are acceptable behavior as downplaying one suggests that some forms of violence are more acceptable than others. Really? Who gets to choose?

Two of my comments here have apparently disappeared into thin air, Jim, so I apologize if it seems I am only seeing one side of this story. To me, the bigger picture is that if we descend into this sort of violence, whether of monuments or storefronts, and especially of minority businesses, churches, homes, or the like, that night of broken glass event in November of 1938 comes to mind (maybe my use of the K word offended some?) and its hard to see where this behavior will bottom out.

So sure, they are different events, one more personal than the other and one damaging individuals and a specific immigrant community rather than a more diffuse swath of the public. I don't see where either event deserves less condemnation as both are cut from the same cloth and both are likely to lead to more anger rather than hope.

I did check the GoFundMe site. Apparently it was heavily subscribed because by the time I got to it, it was doing so well it was shut down. I think that says something about the community other than we all like Indian food.

Tony Mark

Not a double standard. The obelisk represents the city, its history. It's entwined with Santa Fe's image and carries the weight of historical values and ever-changing perspectives. India Palace is a restaurant owned by a Sikh family. It is a private enterprise, an example of one family's effort to make a good life for themselves in 2020 America. Hate the oppressive government? Ok, splash paint on the statue. I catch you, I punish you. Nothing personal, you're just a maggot. However, you hate the Sikhs? You want to scare them? Why? Who are you to judge them? Are they one microbe of DNA different than you? No, they are not. Not one microbe. These are people, not political institutions or their representation. It's not remotely the same thing. The obelisk is an object of the state. It is political by existence. The government weighs its response to that kind of attack against the various push/pulls of law and order vs freedom of expression. India Palace is an ethnic restaurant that provides diversity to the dining experiences available in this town. It's about delicious vindaloo not vicious polemics.

John Onstad

Tony:

Well put.

John Onstad

Richard Reinders

The only group I know that has a very strong history of this type of action is ANTIFA, the Civil Guard are a law and order group, Cowboys are just good ole boys that want to see Trump win, not even close. It is someone that wants to see the unrest continue..

Ed Li

Hey there fascist, my neighborhood’s senior citizen group is more organized than “ANTIFA“.

Richard Reinders

ANTIFA are fascist they just don't know it.

Clinton Ainsworth

Proof? Didn’t think so, 🙄

jeff jones

true

Jim Klukkert

Richard Reinders- "The only group I know that has a very strong history of this type of action is ANTIFA" Really, when? The Antifa movement has some folks clearly round the bend, and some who are very militant opposing Fascism. I know of no instance of Antifa related false flag, racist or xenophobic actions similar to the horrific attack on the India Palace.

In terms of provocateurs who 'want to see the unrest continue,' perhaps you are thinking of the right wing Boogaloo Movement, which saw the killing of two law enforcement officers in California, as well as a thwarted plot in Nevada.

Please show us any proof of your allegations that Antifa has committed such acts, or admit that your were wrong.

Perhaps you are all about scoring political points on behalf of the right, Republicans and Trump, no matter what the cost to civil discourse and the Hopes for Democracy that some of us hold dear.

If your intent falls within this latter scenario, it is you, Richard Reinders, who are the provocateur, creating conflict with distortions and lles, where there is none.

Shame!

Clinton Ainsworth

Thank you Jim, very well stated.

Richard Reinders

Besides you being a bully as usual, as Kahl said some of the comments have been removed so things seem to be out of context, I was commenting on Stefanie calling out the civil guard and the Cowboys making a comment that the only group that has this kind of history is ANTIFA . I am a thinking Democrat and I did not say absolute it was ANTIFA the group that slammed the journalist head with concrete and beat him up and who has busted windows and started fires at any university that allows conservative speakers , that was the ANTIFA I was referring to, adding to the list of suspects.

Jim Klukkert

Richard Reinders I have asked you previously to substantiate your allegations that Antifa has a “very strong history of this type of [false flag] action.” You have not, with your rather random ‘slammed the journalist head with concrete and beat him up and who has busted windows and started fires at any university that allows conservative speakers…’ provided anything of credible substance.

In fact, you cannot substantiate your claims as Antifa is not nearly the threat it has been made out to be in right wing media. As recently as Monday, an investigation by the New York Times probed claims in 41 towns and cities that ‘Antifa’ was on its way to wreak havoc; none of those threats materialized. Such threats have been falsely promoted by right wing activists, media organizations and politicians as a way to manipulate public opinion against the broad and growing movement for Racial Justice.

That these Right Wingers do not understand the nature of Antifa is perhaps most clearly exposed by Trump’s announcement that he would classify Antifa as a Terrorist Organization. Of course, Antifa is NOT A SINGLE ORGANIZATION; it is a movement opposed to the spread of fascism.

That you have not even the vaguest understanding of that movement, is your post that ‘ANTIFA are fascist they just don't know it.’ One can make all sorts of charges about Antifa.

Certainly the Klu Klus Klan and other groups have this sort of violent attack in their history. The Boogaloo movement, the Proud Boys and others come to mind. But apparently not to the mind of a 'thinking Democrat.'

That you see me as a Bully is another mistaken perception of yours. I am a strong opponent of Racism and US Imperialism at home and abroad. When I see commenters on these pages joking about nooses hanging in garages, Jussie/Bubba Wallace Smollet jokes, and so on, I cannot help but think of lynchings, church bombings, George Floyd, Napalm & Agent Orange, the CIA overthrow of ... South America’s oldest Democracy or the democratically elected governments of Iran, Guatemala, and so on…. The suffering of the people makes me strong. If you see that strength as being a bully, that’s not my problem.

Why are you not calling out racist attacks that you presumably read on these pages? Why do you waste time blaming right wing created boogey men? A ‘thinking Democrat.?’ You certainly are not thinking, and you are out of step with even mainstream Democrats.

David Hatch

You will eat your words when the truth about this manufactured attack comes out. Get your seasonings and condiments ready.

Stefanie Beninato

Oh please Richard are we all so stupid we fall for this alt right alt facts? The head of Cowboys for Trump called for the murder of certain governors--no other language to soften that statement and you have the NM Civil Guard pretending to be invited so they can display their manliness through guns....Either of these groups are capable of racial violence as shown by their rhetoric. Words have consequences. T hat being said, I blame Webber for the vandalism of the monument and the restaurant. As far as I could tell, it was a wink, wink about the obelisk because Webber did not order it protected despite threats of property damage. As for Indian Palace, hard to know if it was the disgruntled man parked in the wrong place (seems unlikely) or another expression of the encouragement to commit vandalism based on alleged political motivation. I hope the vandals of the obelisk will be pursued with the same ardor as those who vandalized the restaurant. I am sorry that hard working people have to be subject to this type of racist hate.

Stefanie Beninato

Once you condone vandalism even if the cause is legitimate you encourage this type of action. I blame Webber for caving to a small group of protesters who were given the green light to do whatever because Webber wants to come out on the right PR side. What is Webber's reaction to this racist assault? And Andrew you would like to see this blamed on activists--how about the alleged activists known as the NM Civil Guard or the Cowboys for Trump--they seem like real possibilities. Sure hope there was a camera in the restaurant or in the city parking lot.

Khal Spencer

Enough finger pointing. Your post reminded me of that last scene in Casablanca, where Capt. Renault orders his men to "round up the usual suspects". Ironically, Renault was a leader in that resistance. The main point is to take this garbage seriously and put an end to it.

Andrew Lucero

Stephanie, I never said I would like to blame the activists. I said I had a suspicion that they were behind the vandalism. As for your assertion that NM Civil Guard or the Cowboys for Trump could be just as culpable. Maybe so. I don’t support any of these groups. But to my knowledge, the NM Civil Guard, or Cowboys for Trump seem more law and order based and do not have a history of criminal vandalism.

jeff jones

CFT are older mature respectful men, who have zero history of anything like this. But 'left' kids hallmarks are violence , vandalism and drugs/crime.

Khal Spencer

Once this garbage starts, its not easy to end it.

Andrew Lucero

This is absolutely disgusting… That said, I don’t believe for one minute that White Supremacists or Trump supporters did this…. I have a sneaking suspicion; we’ll find that the people behind this are the very same group that vandalized the obelisks. The same “Activists” who started all this nonsense and have been sowing the seeds of hatred and division in our city.

Khal Spencer

Interesting idea. False flag attack rather than retaliation? But really. Why target an Indian restaurant unless these fools don't know the difference between North America and South Asia??

Andrew Lucero

Khal, I don’t think they care about the differences between North American and South Asian. It is a target of convenience. It is intended to stir up more emotion. Fan the flames of racial hatred and pit group against group.

Khal Spencer

Hatred and fear. I'd think in the year 2020 we would be better than this.

Comment deleted.
Jim Klukkert

jeff jones- Are you now accusing India Palace owner Bajit Singh of falsely reporting vandalism?

So the this is fraud, perhaps a 'false flag op,' perpetuated to foster continued unrest, formented at least in part by an immigrant of color.

Is that your claim, jeff jones?

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