(133) comments Back to story

Grace Trujillo

It didn't say if anybody was arrested! Mayor Webber, I know it was your decision not to arrest anybody, but if they do not want to follow the mandate, then they can get arrested. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Grace Trujillo

If you do not want to keep us safe here in Santa Fe, then go back where ever you came from. We want our community safe and want people to follow the mask mandate. If you refuse to follow it, then STAY THE HECK HOME!

Khal Spencer

107 comments. What's the record?

Mike Johnson

[thumbup]

Tom Hyland

There is an astounding amount of hysteria posted here in this comments section. The CDC is our American source for authoritative facts and they told us that we have a VERY slim chance of dying from whatever this thing is. I am 65 years old and I have a 99.5% chance of recovery if I should contract... GET THIS... a virus that the CDC has NO sample of. The CDC admits it has no purified sample, so WHAT is it they are testing... and WHAT is it they are vaccinating against?

The yearly death numbers, also tabulated by the CDC, are totally normal compared to our steadily growing population. Currently the US has around 340 million people. Every year people die… this is a big shock... no one knew this. Old people who are sick with several other ailments die, too, but that’s considered hate speech these days. In 2015, according to the CDC, the total number for ALL deaths was 2,712,630. In 2016 it was 2,744,248. In 2017 it was 2,813,503. In 2018 it was 2,838,205. In 2019 it was 2,855,000. And in 2020 the number of total deaths was 2,854,838. That’s very slightly DOWN from 2019. However, there’s only so many death certificates that can be filled out. “Somehow” in 2020 the flu, heart disease, cancer, strokes, even blowing your trailer home to smithereens while cooking meth wasn't the cause of hardly any deaths at all. The yearly flu has totally disappeared! Almost every death was accountable to covid19. On the subject of masks, the virologists working in laboratories, working with VIRUSES, are dressed like they're on the moon. They aren't wearing bandanas. A virus can enter through your ears and eyes. A virus doesn't stop at 6 feet. It doesn't linger at the doorway of a restaurant then cease once you sit down. The virus doesn't wait to attack once your en route to the restroom. Most people believe whatever they're told, television is the culprit, and they continue this masked theater because they can't stand the pressure of looking out of place.

Robert Derrick

"yearly death numbers, also tabulated by the CDC, are totally normal"

This is weird brother. I go to the CDC website and find exactly the opposite of what you write above. It is almost like one of us is just flat out lying. I would give anything to know which one of us it is. (BTW, the act of "lying" makes one a "Liar" -- a lotta people are afraid to point that out. It is also consider immoral. Well, at least for a non-Christian like myself. YMMV)

Tom Hyland

Robert, I'm not lying, you're simply incorrect. Also, dying is normal and it is not immoral to say that, either. Ignorance makes one an ignoramus. Are we having fun yet? You've probably got some paranoia regarding mortality which can result in a very bumpy ride as you traverse this world. Relief is instant if you stop identifying as non-Christian, or Christian, or whatever game you're adhering to. I'm curious, what does YMMV mean?

Robert Derrick

"you're simply incorrect"

And yet, I am right now at the CDC website looking at data that FLATLY contradicts your assertion and CLEARLY shows that the yearly death numbers from all causes from 2017 to 2019 sits in a gentle wave that averages about 55,000 deaths per week, with peaks up around 60,000 per week between DEC and March each year, a gentle wave, that turns into a tsunami in 2020, with peaks in Apr 2020 of around 75,000 and Jan 2021 peaks of around 82,000, with a high week excess death rate for +40%!

But, I'm incorrect, and the CDC data does NOT say what it clearly says.

Do unicorns poot rainbows in your neck of the woods also?

///

I am not claiming you are "an ignoramus". That would be giving you the benefit of doubt. I am claiming that you are lying. Big difference.

///

My "game" is that oftimes people pretend that God (Yahweh, El, Donald, Capital) has given them an imprimatur to lie for his/their/its sake. Having no such "Get of of Jail Free" card, I don't get to be immoral because some sky wizard or his arch villian made me do it. The burden and blame is on me alone. Therefore I tell the truth.

///

YMMV: it is an invocation of the ancient eldritch demon Yawgmoth from the lost continent of Mxyzptlk.

(note: I am always amazed that people who believe that their google-fu is mighty and puissant are seemingly incapable of finding a graphic representation of their ample backsides with their own two fingers)

///

YMMV.

///

ps: apologies for not addressing the other mindless ramblings in your post, but I could not be bothered.

Tom Hyland

I checked the CDC website again. That's where I got the numbers I posted in the first place. You're wrong, Robert. I'm not saying you're a liar because that is SO petty. I don't know what CDC website you visited because the one I visited says the 2020 TOTAL numbers of deaths, in America, compared to 2019 is slightly down. It is well known that huge amounts of deaths have been classified "covid19" when nothing like that was reality. Even Ms. Birx admitted any death in which a patient tested positive was a covid death even if that patient recovered months earlier or died of something totally unrelated. And the PCR test inventor Kari Mullis, said it was never intended to be dialed up past 10 cycles of amplification. They've dialed this test up to 35 cycles and more and can probably find bubonic plague if they want. STILL, the covid19 "virus" or whatever it is hasn't been isolated and identified and there is no sample at the CDC. I'm betting you watch a lot of television news. We've never met, Robert, but I'm telling anyone I have a conversation with to steer clear of these experimental vaccines. The real pandemic is how stupid everyone is.

Robert Derrick

"I checked the CDC website again"

And yet, not once have you posted any actual data from the CDC website.

Before you note that neither have I, let me say that neither have I. But, I was not the one who made an unsupported and unsubstantiated assertion, and when called on it, failed to offer any further support of that unsubstantiated (and false) assertion, but instead simply repeated the assertion. "I checked the CDC website again". Sure you did. Why should we not believe you. Unless by "CDC website" you mean a catchy meme you found on bitchute that claims to be from a "CDC website".

///

But, you may ask, why don't I post the link to the "CDC website" that clearly shows that you are disseminating false information? Good question. It is because I have no desire to educate you, since, as you consistently repeating falsehoods, it is clear that facts and truth are wasted on you. You are uneducatable. By choice. It is not petty when it is true. I called you out. You could have either proved me wrong, or called me petty.

///

You called me petty. I could not be more satisfied that I made my point.

///

And in case you are still missing that point, I am not here making it for you.

You are not the audience. You are the pinata.

Robert Derrick

For anybody else listening, "Tom Hyland" avers that he got his "numbers" from the CDC website. It is within the realm of possibility that he did pull them off the actual website, though it is also possible that he pulled them off of a popular delusional meme that many of the swamp dwellers have been sharing. Either way, his 2020 number is wrong.

///

He reports a US death total for 2020 of 2.85 million. As does the rancid addled meme. As also does a number of CDC pages. What the meme fails to report and "Tom Hyland" fails to notice is that figure is for 2020 up to November, which means it is missing part of October (slow reporting), most of November (early reporting) and ALL of December! So yeah, if we just decide that there will only be 10 months in 2020, the numbers work out just right.

///

I call that lying. YMMV.

///

The corrected and up to date number for 2020 is 3.2 million, which is 12% higher than projected, pre-Covid. Not that you needed to hear that, I know you are all smart people.

Tom Hyland

YAWN… guess what that means.

Robert Derrick

"YAWN… guess what that means."

It means that you posted false information in public either gathered from some dubious source, or incorrectly skimmed and improperly understood from an actual source, and when directly called out, instead of being a grown-up and defending yourself by providing actual proof of your assertion (which of course you could not) or retracting and apologizing for spreading falsehoods, you doubled-down. Total dishonesty. (I know that the 'L' word triggers you, and since you are down, I won't belabor it here). Again, this entire conversation was never for your benefit. It was to demonstrate how much anyone should trust anything you say -- not at all. Why you? You just happened to be walkin' by when I noticed ya.

///

"Now son, do you know what you did wrong?"

"Yes sir. I shared something on social media with checking facts and encouraged BS to propagate, leading to the dumbing-down of humanity."

Tom Hyland

YAWN... I'll translate... "You're Always Whining Nonsense." And that is extremely boring and tiresome.

Sabine Strohem

Their right to kill me. Huh. The golden rule seems to have become a thing of the past.

Laura Placitas

My husband cardiologist and his wife both contracted Covid. The thing is - they both not only wore masks, they wore 2, as well as a face shield and gloves. They went to the grocery store once every 2 weeks and went no where else. So if the masks truly work - how did they get sick.

I’ll also add that during the NY shut down, the complete shut down (I believe this happened in California too - both completely shut) numbers grew. The virus actually was transmitted to family members within one household. So where did it come from? Btw this was in the middle of pandemic, not at the beginning where they could have been out and brought it home. Going to the only places open (essential places) fully masked, and still spread it? Something doesn’t add up in those 2 events I just mentioned. I’d be interested in your input.

Tom Hyland

Laura, I'll answer that question. People are more susceptible to getting sick by staying indoors and wearing masks because this activity weakens your immune system. Breathing in and out your expended CO2 with a moist diaper on your face decreases oxygen intake and collects surface germs like fly paper. Avoiding the outdoors, thus decreasing vitamin D intake, weaken the immune system. I would think the cardiologist and his wife would be smarter than average folks but nothing makes much sense anymore. "Stop watching TV" should be every doctor's advise.

Irene Edwards

People, just wear the mask. You are totally disregarding the health of those around you. You are disrespectful of the health of those around you. If you want to catch Covid-19, then go right ahead. There are those of us who would like to stay healthy.

KT Bach

Masks protect no one. Those of us who choose to not wear masks are not disrepectful of the health of those around us. We are respectful of the fact that good health requires full freedom to breathe. We are also respectful of the science, which does not support mask use. Trying to keep a virus out via a mask is like putting up a chain link fence to keep away the flies. If you are afraid of people, then stay home.

Comment deleted.
David In NH

No worries on the pun. Very clever. This isn't a court, but I'd contend that uninfringed breathing is a natural right, which precedes legal rights. But you may not be familiar with natural rights, except perhaps for a Thomas Jefferson's famous ones in our Declaration of Independence. As far as those that could fall under legal rights, 14 infringement of liberty, 1st freedom of expression, and 4th security in your person. An opposing view is that it's a state right under the 10th, and not protected by the constitution, but even if at a state level any infringement must be strongly justified. I don't deny that at the beginning of all of this, when little was understood, that perhaps caution and mask mandates had it's place, but that ship sailef long ago. I'm not familiar if flat-earth and mask mandates relate to each other. My yard is not very flat, but I don't think I'll get or avoid COVID because of it.

Comment deleted.
Khal Spencer

I reported your "mask-holes" comment as abuse but apparently the New Mexican thinks insults are OK as long as they are aimed at the right people. Sigh.

Angel Ortiz

Signs of life and intelligence in Texas:. https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cnn.com%2F2021%2F03%2F20%2Fus%2Ftexas-restaurant-mask-sign-trnd%2Findex.html&data=04%7C01%7C%7C481635bea93c42be830e08d8ecd4f5c5%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637519746679380557%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=6N3zzytszioJqkTa3YINp1mB4nR4wlFMoSKHs9fSGhM%3D&reserved=0

Pc Bix

Ladies and gentlemen, your 2020 graduating class of trump University.

Angel Ortiz

[thumbup]

KT Bach

This has nothing to do with Trump. Freedom should be a non partisan issue.

Pc Bix

It's sure nothing any educated person would believe.

Carolyn DM

Hilarious, since the buffoon Mr. Trumpf is the very politician that politicized mask wearing, and the majority of anti-maskers are ignorant, Trumpf loving Republicans.

Grace Trujillo

Arrest these people already! I am a part of this community also and would like to be safe! What part do they not get. WE ARE IN A PANDEMIC! If they want to put their own lives in danger, that's fine, but when you go out in public, WE WANT YOU TO PUT ON A *&^&^&& MASK! PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KT Bach

Then stay home and keep your fear to yourself. If you check the statistics, you will find that the death rate for 2020 was no higher than usual. As for alleged "cases" the PCR test is totally unreliable. Check the science as you'll find a whole lot of things about this "pandemic" that don't add up.

Robert Derrick

If by "no higher than usual" you mean much higher that usual, up to a peak of ~40% excess deaths, then yes, that is the case. According the CDC. Those commies!

(Where the average rate of death in the US from Jan 2017 to May 2020 was about 58,000-60,000/week, and in Jan 2021, week of the 2nd, peaking at 84,000)

Regarding masks and oxygen, yes, you can easily die from lack of oxygen wearing a mask, and they provide zero protection from infection, which accounts for why surgeons and nurses never wear masks in an operating room, because thousands who tried dropped in their tracks.

Last, um, are there any other stupid things I failed to address. Don't matter, they are still stupid, even when I am not satirizing them.

However, the one I liked the best was, 'the number of deaths has not gone up at all, but, suicide rates have skyrocketed'! Which was a huge surprise to me -- turns out, suicide does not have a death outcome. Who knew?

Look, I could point you to the data, but I no longer waste my time trying to teach pigs to dance. But epidemiologists, scientists, and all of those hacks up in Los Alamos pretending to take the pandemic with seriousness maybe need to stop being such Cassandra's and start asking journalism majors like David for the straight dope. Yeah. Dope.

Oh, and flat earth -- Science Education for the win!

Nicholas Freedman

[thumbup]

Ed Hardlied

👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

Richard Forrest

[thumbup][thumbup]

Khal Spencer

Here is an actual research paper that came out last fall in Nature Research. I'll include the Conclusions section as well as the URL. Anyone who is serious about this rather than just wanting to fling stuff back and forth might want to read some of this stuff.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-72798-7

"These observations directly demonstrate that wearing of surgical masks or KN95 respirators, even without fit-testing, substantially reduce the number of particles emitted from breathing, talking, and coughing. While the efficacy of cloth and paper masks is not as clear and confounded by shedding of mask fibers, the observations indicate it is likely that they provide some reductions in emitted expiratory particles, in particular the larger particles (> 0.5 μm). We have not directly measured virus emission; nonetheless, our results strongly imply that mask wearing will reduce emission of virus-laden aerosols and droplets associated with expiratory activities, unless appreciable shedding of viable viruses on mask fibers occurs. The majority of the particles emitted were in the aerosol range (<� 5 μm). As inertial impaction should increase as particle size increases, it seems likely that the emission reductions observed here provide a lower bound for the reduction of particles in the droplet range (> 5 μm). Our observations are consistent with suggestions that mask wearing can help in mitigating pandemics associated with respiratory disease. Our results highlight the importance of regular changing of disposable masks and washing of homemade masks, and suggests that special care must be taken when removing and cleaning the masks."

David In NH

Khal, I'll submit to you that masks have to stop virulent material, especially droplet; how effectively I don't know, especially aerosols and certainly no protection from the store of fomites. I've come across similar studies. I appreciate you not flinging, well you sorta did. CDC put out their study about a week ago and concluded that masks work, even though they only have a two month sample with a 1-2% difference. I do appreciate that you at least are interested in researching the topic. It's incumbent upon the government to show convincing evidence to infringe upon anyone's rights. This study doesn't show how many healthy people are at risk, have gotten the COVID-19 disease (as opposed to a SARS COV-2 positive), asymptomatic, symptomatic, medical internation, hospitalization, and death, disaggregated by risk group and useful strata. Just "case" vaguaries and emphasis on gross death counts. A better comparison might be a real world study, like the media debunked Denmark Mask Study. Or, better yet the Tennessee county analysis which compared mask counties to non-mask counties with similar demographics, even bordering in many cases. With more opening up around the country along political lines, there will be more to discern very soon.

Khal Spencer

I think there is a lot of bootstrapping going on right now on this. We have not had a pandemic of this sort in a century. There is a lot to learn, we are slowly learning it, and I don't begrudge leadership for erring on the side of caution.

Friend of mine is from TN and also mentioned that state's study. Even if masks are symbolic efforts to remind people to be careful and not spew goo on each other, that is a good thing.

Take care.

Matt Ponteri

I totally disagree with these people, but i support their right to express their opinions. And, to their credit, applaud them for respecting opposing opinions by offering to wear a mask if approached, keeping protest peaceful, and basically respecting rights of others as well. It's amazing, you can protest, keep it civil, and spread your word just as far without going insane on the community. We all have a right to be heard, no matter what your opinion is. You dont have a right to force your opinions on anyone, which, it seems, these folks did not. Well done.

Khal Spencer

[thumbup]

Nicholas Freedman

Yes, let's all pay attention to what the *flat earther* thinks.

An actual flat earther. Someone who can't understand basic reality about the world we all live in wants to educate the rest of us about "facts."

Pathetic.

Richard Forrest

[thumbup][thumbup]

David Gordon

Nick, I understand your consternation. Mt. Taylor is quite visible from Santa Fe. 102 miles. This is impossible on a spherical planet. Geometry and trig both give the same result. 8 inches per mile squared of drop gives 6666 feet of curve at 100 miles. It has never been observed. Science involves observation and reproduction of results - which is what I do. As a man of science you might "believe" in a "big bang" universe with "black holes". Those are two competing cosmological models yet commonly conflated. The average person knows nothing of science and is given their information. I'll be at the Plaza again Saturday at 10. Drop by.

Khal Spencer

Mr. David Gordon, who, last November, reworded Martin Niemoller's poem about the Holocaust to complain about the state closing the Santa Fe Target after the store reached its infection limit.

https://www.santafenewmexican.com/news/coronavirus/santa-fe-target-store-reaches-state-s-covid-19-limit-for-closure/article_f7bb4074-2463-11eb-96bd-8b7a3a0379d6.html

David Gordon

Indeed. I stand by the observation today. Store closures, diminished food supply, rising prices, more malnutrition, worsening health standards, more depression and suicide. Seeing a pattern yet while you abide?

David In NH

David Gordon. I agree, but breathing freely is enough to fluster any logical reasoning from those that have little but insults. One step at a time, lest the heels just dug in further. I was hoping for more intelligent responses; maybe someone will surprise me.

Angel Ortiz

Perhaps what happens in NH should stay in NH. Mr. Gordon is just another import who could not be successful in his point of origin. Now he is here in SF spreading more rhetoric. White noise at best.

Robert Derrick

You know, it does occur to me that maybe what is happening is that when some people put on a mask, they forget to breathe. So yeah, that could be very serious.

Khal Spencer

My wife works for the Food Depot. The reason for the lines was people were out of work, not because the food industry shut down. Troll.

Nicholas Freedman

Thanks to your wife and to the Food Depot.

David In NH

Angel, you are blessed with a beautiful city with great people. I've visited and would love to come back. I hope I've fairly shared a perspective without deceit or animus, that's all. I think you might find NH amazing as well. We are all imports from somewhere.

Angel Ortiz

Agreed. I only hope all of us have the resilience and intelligence to survive. Only time will tell. Thank you for your honesty

Tiffany Thomas

hahahahahahaha flat earth hahahahahahahahaha. Diminished food supply where? Rising prices isn't anything new. Mental health is available and I suggest you utilize it

Jeff Clark

yep, having to wait your turn to go into Target is exactly like the Holocaust.

Nicholas Freedman

This.

People who think inconvenience is the same as oppression have never experienced actual oppression.

Khal Spencer

Truer words never spoken. Thank you.

Grace Perez

Perfectly said. Thank you.

Angel Ortiz

The holocaust? Bad taste.

Khal Spencer

These people are sounding so ludicrous that I can't help but to think we are being trolled.

Miranda Viscoli

They should have been arrested. Stupid is as stupic does.

David In NH

Miranda, it's not nice to call people stupid, whatever stupid means. Just a conversation that would love your input, and perhaps some cold hard facts, aside from vague case and death counts.

Richard Forrest

Stupid is as stupid does.

David In NH

I tried to spell stupic like you did, but it got corrected somehow. But I know it was a simple mistake.

Richard Forrest

[thumbup]

B. Rosen

Anti-mask brigade = pro-pandemic brigade. These folks are going to wind up accomplishing the opposite of what they desire.

David In NH

How so?

B. Rosen

By continuing to spread the virus by refusing to wear masks they will make it less likely that state and local governments will decide to lift the mask-wearing ordinances. We are so close to returning to normalcy, if people could just try to comply with the safety measures and get vaccinated, masks could be unnecessary in a few months time.

David In NH

Has NM been able to show how many healthy people have died or even needed medical intervention?; how about disaggregated data by risk category, age and preconditions compared to case type (symptomatic, asymptomatic, medical intervention, death)? Are the mask mandates in NM significantly better than non-mask mandate states, like SD? I'm open to being educated on what justifies alimitations on rights, but do generalizations like meaningless case and death counts meet the standard of critical analysis? I understand our states need to limit rights in certain situations, but the responsibility is on government to justify why. What can possibly be wrong with education and debate?

B. Rosen

There are massive amounts of data available on the propagation of this virus. If people care to know about the efficacy of these measures they can certainly research them. There is also a very broad consensus in the scientific community about the necessity of masks to slow the spread of this disease. Is it really such a horrible imposition on people’s rights to ask them to wear masks in public spaces until we have seen a permanent decline in cases? I think not. I think the real problem is that some politicians who are completely lacking in scruples decided to politicize this issue to their advantage (stirring up anti-government sentiment, preying on paranoia about the government, etc.). I find it hard to grasp how anyone could be so callous that they would risk the lives of 1000’s of people to,score political points. You will notice that there is no real debate about the necessity of masks among infectious disease experts: shouldn’t we trust them over politicians?

David In NH

Science is empiracle, not consensus based. Questioning and debate are bad? Plenty of data, but you offer none. Where is the data? Which consensus are you talking about, the politicized one that supports your arguments without data?

KT Bach

If you believe masks stop viruses, wear one. And while you are at it you can put a chain link fence around your patio to keep the flies out! Read the actual science on mask use - and not just the words of Fauci's followers -- and you will learn pretty quickly that it does NOT support mask mandates.

KT Bach

There is no evidence that masks prevent infection. Look at the science. Have you even read the lawsuit lodged by Ana Garner? Or is it just more fun to speak in media approved sound bytes?

Richard Forrest

It’s more fun to speak in media approved sound bytes, thanks for asking. 🤣

Nicholas Freedman

Exactly.

The pandemic in the US has been lengthened by these and similar-thinking people.

Childish, selfish, ignorant ... We all suffer from the fools among us.

Cheryl Odom

You can't argue with stupid.

David Gordon

Thanks for the warning.

Robert Novak

Agree. And he says he has a BS degree. Seems appropriate!

David In NH

Wouldn't it be great if this was covered as a Pro Breathing Group?

David In NH

David, congratulations. I realize the ideological hostility you have to deal with. Get to 20 so the first amendment comes into play and grow! Educate the police on their oaths and citizens on their right to breathe, negative psychological impacts. I love the civil disobedience. I love the heard strength. The police will have a hard time with picking you off one at a time. They need to be educated on the danger of following unjust "superior orders". Enjoying the show from New Hampshire! "Breathe - Santa Fe"!

Diego Mondragon

The police may have a hard time picking you off one at a time, but I certainly won't. Thank God you're David in NH and not David in NM. This Gordon moron and his flock of tree huggers should March their as**j straight out of SF. Because you moved here years ago does NOT make this your town. This is our town, my parents, my grandparents. So sick of these morons thinking they're going to change it with their hippy bs.

David Gordon

I'll be there next Saturday Diego - standing up for the rights our parents and grandparents would have given their lives for. "Our town" says that of the people of Santa Fe and I am merely one. I will see it open for the children to play in and music to arise from and the wonderful people to again sell their artwork. David in NM.

David In NH

Diego, you and I and Mr. David NM have far more in common to celebrate. Refocus. I bet he'd support your rights even if you don't.

Diego Mondragon

I do support my rights. I supported my rights and the rights of you, as a three time Iraq war vet bud. I saw things you and Gordon couldn't even imagine, so that ignorance can prevail in this country and give people like you the right to not wear masks, like it's a life or death situation to wear a mask for fifteen minutes in a grocery store to help save the elderly. Thanks to people like you that now that we're close, it will be possible to go to s*** again because of a few people who are still stuck in the 70's. It's not Woodstock anymore bro!

David In NH

Diego, thank you for serving and your oath to the constitution while you did so. I didn't serve I can't compete with you there, but it's not justification. The politicized media controlled narrative doesn't allow all facts to bear out. I only came to my conclusions after deep research and data dives were needed to satisfy my thirst for what seemed contrary to common sense, as they impacted my life in a drastic way. We disagree on the issue which thankfully we each have the right to do so thanks to your willingness to serve and those like you. I don't pretend to even understand your experiences, but it's not relevant to the lack of proportional response. The government, which includes health officials have an obligation to justify infringement on our rights, not the opposite. I only ask that if you have that justification that you shared it with this group and not be so overly concerned with disparagement. I've asked my school board, my hhs department, my governor to provide simple information about vectors of transmission that justify mask mandates, remote learning, shuttering businesses and I only get vague casery information based on testing and emphasis on gross death counts. The empirical data is inconclusive on masks, yet positions are supported that lead to restrictive policies anyway. If anything mask policies should show overwhelming evidence to support these positions, yet they can't break even statistical margins of error. The least that David from NM can do is honor your willingness to unselfishly protect those rights. I'm sorry we don't agree here on the means to an end and further that you believe this type of disobedience causes harm, but I'm still willing to learn and understand why.

Rachel Thompson

David In NH, where in NH are you from?

David In NH

Rachel, eastern Mass border. Curious why

Richard Forrest

If anyone was “infringing on your right to breath” you’d, uh, be dead. Get over yourself.

Lisa Wooldridge

Freaking loonies.

Irene Baldwin

Thanks for sharing David,

I have wondered about "flat earth" .

As for people upset about masks vs no masks, you really do seem upset. Because - you are taunting and insulting. That's fear turned angry, like you are cornered.

Usually when I read an article I dislike, I scan swiftly and move on. That's it.

About masks - I personally wear mine when out and about, because I would feel horrible if a friend (or anyone) caught it from me and died - you know? I know older more vulnerable folks. And maybe I could gave a mild stealth case or be a carrier. You never know.

But if individuals feel "at risk" then its best to stay home. Sheriffs office and others will deliver groceries and essentials :) . And its ok to miss a soccer game or 3.

Everyone's different I think, and most people know if they tend to "catch stuff" or conversely are naturally chock-full of antibodies.

I'm a Type O blood type which studies are showing is lower risk for catching COVID .

Personally I empathize with both sides of mask or no-mask preference.

I live out in the country, and I work mostly from my home-office, so I just wear my mask when I go out every few days but I'm on open quiet county roads most of the time out so not much time on. If I got a cold I would cringe cause you know - hot moist breathing with goop in my nose - yuch. Not healthy! But so far no cold in a year :) .

I also feel like a bandit with the mask on :/ .

It was lean last year, I have a small pension and I'm self-employed.

*** Ultimately I think people should do what they like to do. Don't go out to restaurants if you don't want to. Let them be open for us that cannot cook.

I'm in this here (USA) because of personal freedoms, individual choices - free speech, free trade, free religon. There is enough room for everyone.

No need to squish anyone.

Any way

Try to not complain because I wrote a lot. Or if I miss-spelled. Etc.

Thank you :) .

And thanks for sharing everyone.

Khal Spencer

Was having lunch at The Shed and wondered what this was all about. Rolling my eyes.

NICHOLAS KNORR

Disguised.. those following the guidelines stay home. If we dont fine and make a stand we will be in this pandemic. Our city government is failing in this area. Our policing and lack of enforcement is very upsetting

Angel Ortiz

[thumbup]

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First Last

Wow, if this isn't satire- then it's even a million times funnier!!!

Angel Ortiz

"David Gordon, who organized the event, said he believes the Earth is flat and nobody he knows has contracted the virus.". Definitely sounds like an expert in the medical field. I am willing to buy him a one way bus ticket to Dallas.

David Gordon

As all will see to follow. We offer evidence and all you will have are insults. Guess who wins?

Angel Ortiz

Over 3,800 body bags in NM. Not insulting. Facts.

David Gordon

Same number of people that died last year. No overall rise in death statistics year-on-year. No flu or pneumonia anymore? PCR test notoriously unreliable. Fraudci making billions on top of his AZT massacre. The people who knowingly left asbestos in baby powder for 50 years now have a shot for you.

KT Bach

Yup, and AMAZINGLY, deaths by flu, pneumonia, cancer, heart disease all way down. Why might that be? Covid a lifesaver?

Angel Ortiz

Dave. It is not about winning or losing. Stay on your selfish and ignorant path. Best of luck ese.

David Gordon

Again with the insults. You will realize that is all you have. Selfish? Are you not aware that this state's economy is devastated? That suicide rates have risen dramatically? That out of work people are on the verge of loosing their homes? All of this while you hide and comply? Who is selfish? BTW -I always comply with private business's mask requirements and right to refuse service. We demonstrated everyone's right to live and breathe free in our PUBLIC spaces.

First Last

Hi, Dave "Rocket Man" Gordon. Next time your dog takes a dump- use a trash bag and not a mask. I get that your entire life has been a performance of some kind or another and you were just being true to form- but how bout you DONATE those masks to a shelter or another charity next time. Ya know, because you're such a kind and giving person and are so concerned about the lives of people in my city.

Oh, and PS- do you defend the participants of your flat brained parade that came over and threatened me with violence even though I stayed well away from all of you?

David Gordon

Apologies sir. I was out of bags. lol. And yes, life is a stage. We're out there to counter the idiocracy that is causing massive debt, ruined businesses and shattered lives. The rise in child depression and suicide amongst school-less children is reason enough. Let me know who needs masks and I'll donate 100 of them.

David Gordon

I'm the only two flatties I know in Santa Fe that had the intelligence to do the study, the honesty to accept it and the bravery to share it. As to your harassment - my apologies. I'll be there again next Saturday to again declare the world a free place to breathe. Drop by and say hi.

First Last

OK- so since you turned off the replies- let me just say this: You just listed a bunch of ECONOMIC conditions that are endemic to CAPITALISM. It's just that some of the effects of a dead system finally worked it's way up to people in your economic class- and that has turned your poor flat world upside down. After a lifetimes of pure privilege, just the thought of having to participate in society with us lowly creatures has crushed your souls.

When I say flat brained- that means unfixably stupid. Beyond repair. Unworthy of the air that you and your ilk steal from the rest of us. "Flat Earth" and your various other QAnon conspiracies that you subscribe to only confirms that at the heart of hatred of poor and underserved communities- is your racism.

Stefanie Beninato

They remained "compliant"? If they were not in compliance with the health order, what were they in compliance with? Then again you can go to Sprouts at DeVargas Mall and see shoppers without masks and no staff "notices" because their own employees don't wear masks properly or think that Santa Fe is going to "open up" soon as if that meant no masks were going to be required. They also think that if you should expect good safety practices and caring about others, you should live in TX. Dumber than dirt for sure.

Angel Ortiz

Could not agree more Stephanie. Unfortunately, human beings are truly not very intelligent and those people you have seen without masks are everywhere. Truly very selfish and ignorant not to be cognizant of protecting our community.

David Gordon

You don't have a community when half the population is out of work, clinically depressed and hopeless. We say go back to America as it was.

Carolyn DM

And you believe the Earth is flat!! LMAO!!

KT Bach

Depression, anxiety, loneliness, suicide, spousal and child abuse. . . Kids not being educated well online. Massive business failures. The list goes on and on. Times to bury the "new normal."

KT Bach

Intelligent people actually read the science, Angel, and we are able to think critically and independently. The science does not support your position. Seems to me you are the selfish one if you insist that I "protect" you and make you feel comfortable by depriving myself of adequate oxygen and exposing myself to recycled air. If you feel unsafe around me, keep your distance or stay home! Or wear double and triple masks if breathing in plastic carcinogenic particles helps you feel safe.

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Stefanie Beninato

If you believe in what you are posting, why not use your real name instead of hiding behind a pseudonym?

Khal Spencer

We shop at that Sprouts a fair amount since it is walking distance and generally, folks, both shoppers and employees, have been masked.

Furthermore, after reading about what happened to one of college friends, now living in Las Vegas, I'm pretty sensitive to people being sloppy. The story here:

http://hwstock.org/covid/

David Gordon

Here is the New Mexico Stands Up website. Attorney Ana Garner has filed a federal lawsuit. See https://nmstandsup.org/. You will learn all about why people are healthier in Texas.

Angel Ortiz

Texas? The land of Ted Cruz? Seriously? Last count there 2.75 cases of COVID. Over 48,000 body bags. Those who are supposedly healthy in Texas are the entitled part of the population. The poor, mostly Latinos and African Americans. Now Texas is 100% open. Perhaps you need to consider my assistance to relocate you there?

David Gordon

Insults and body bags again. Can't read the lawsuit?

KT Bach

Cases? Based on what? Inaccurate PCR test. Body bags? How different are the numbers from previous year's deaths from flu, pneumonia, heart disease, obesity, diabetes, all of which are now attributed to the convid virus.

Diego Mondragon

You and your group of tree huggers should be in Texas then, right? We look forward to greeting you morons next week! :)

KT Bach

Interesting then isn't it that the numbers of cases in Florida, South Dakota and Texas are no higher than mask pushing states like NY, MI and our very own NM. And those economies not trashed like NM, which sadly has seen death of thousands of businesses plus escalating depression, anxiety, spousal and child abuse. . .

Nicholas Freedman

Yes.

It makes me angry to see lack of distancing or masking, and especially the total lack of enforcement.

These people have prolonged for many months the things they claim to stand against with their intransigence and selfishness.

Stan Biderman

Disappointing that the New Mexican gives space to a flat earther. Don’t you have any better filler?

David Gordon

It happens to be my religion so go easy cowboy. To understand the FE paradigm you have to be intelligent enough to do the work, honest enough to respect the preponderance of evidence and honest enough to share your observations. Most people lack at least one of the three. Mt. Taylor can regularly be seen 100 miles from Santa Fe. There should be 6660 of curvature that would hide the mountain. Sitting right there. Impossible on a sphere. Simply no curve anywhere ever recorded.

Angel Ortiz

Just to be clear. The virus is a hoax and the Earth is flat. All of this equates into religion? Please enlighten me on your educational background.

David Gordon

I have a BS in Journalism. Which means I read and think critically. Ana Garner's NM federal lawsuit lays out the fraud in excruciating detail. See https://nmstandsup.org/

We were there to assert everyone's right to assemble and breathe freely in our public space. 15 days to flatten the curve - one year later. Seeing a pattern?

Angel Ortiz

Dave. As I stated before. Good luck ese.

Paul Davis

One of the best recent demonstration of "curve" was carried out by flat earthers themselves: https://www.newsweek.com/behind-curve-netflix-ending-light-experiment-mark-sargent-documentary-movie-1343362

I'd like to say that nobody could make this stuff up, but it seems that I'm wrong about that.

Paul Davis

There's also this, from George Takei: "I didn't spend my childhood in barbed wire enclosed internment camps so I could listen to grown adults today cry oppression because they have to wear a mask at Costco."

Nicholas Freedman

Excellent quote, thanks.

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Nicholas Freedman

Yes, ideally that should be true: no adult who thinks the earth is flat should be taken seriously about anything.

Whatever the specific cause of one's flat-eartherness happens to be (derangement, stupidity, susceptibility to disinformation, etc), they all are deal-breakers for fact-based arguments.

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Paul Davis

Orwell and Huxley would laugh in the faces of this sort of protest.

And you know, there really are bad spokespersons for ideas, even when the ideas might be right, or at least worthy of inspection. If those people truly believe in the ideas, their best service to those ideas is to keep quiet and let others do the evangelizing.

It's not the shape of the earth that matters per se, it's the demonstratio of someone's ability (or inability) to process evidence, reason, analyse and acknowledge when they are wrong. That could be about the flat earth, it could be about something entirely different. It's not about what someone believes, but the fact that their beliefs are not rooted in any conceptual structure that is capable of falsification.

Robert Derrick

Your math is wrong brother. As well as your logic. And reason? Forget it. We could hash it all out here, as I am certain that your extensive scientific training in journalism would be able to grasp it instantly, but we both know that would be pointless, because reality is not one of the foundational data points that drives your knowledge base.

But, assuming you are not a complete dishonest hack, how much of Mt. Taylor is visible from Santa Fe? All of it? A couple hundred feet? And, where exactly are you standing in Santa Fe when you see it? I can already hear the "From Anywhere!!!" response, but that of course is specious and smug and stupid, all at the same time. So, where?

(awaiting a silly pointless response that addresses zero questions, but sounsd spooky and ominous)

David Gordon

Indeed. Were it a couple hundred feet revealed. The plains are a the base just like when you are close. What math do you use for a curvature calculation? There is no other. Geometry (at 8 inches per mile squared) and trigonometry (given 4000 mile radius) reveal the same curve. A curve that has never been witnessed. Come on down Saturday we cover some of the other refutations.

Nicholas Freedman

Agreed.

All it does is provide a path to spread disinformation in the comments.

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