Klopf: Build a safety net, or a safety sofa?

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Welcome to the discussion.


  • Pat Shackleford posted at 2:08 am on Fri, Apr 26, 2013.

    Pat Shackleford Posts: 1100

    Like most self described fiscal conservatives, "stimulus spending" trillion$ on needless wars started by political conservatives (Republicans & Democrats) is normal, natural, and considered a productive use of taxpayer's money. Not exactly thrifty, but at least the money is transferred to those most deserving (if not "entitled") of wealth; the wealthy. The poor would certainly gain Kloph's respect if only they'd save more of their money for retirement, or just the next rainy day perhaps. Socialism is for bailing-out large banks whose business model depends on various fraudulent schemes foisted upon the middle and working class. Don't expect a handout if you're merely homeless or hungry.

    How does an "old lady" become so delusional that she suspects an active disdain for "thrifty folks" from the local townsfolk? Sounds more like the complaint of a thrifty old "bag lady".

  • Jasper posted at 3:58 pm on Mon, Apr 22, 2013.

    Jasper Posts: 1

    Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion but not his or her own facts. Ms. Kloph does herself and a disservice when she plays loose with the facts. John H below has the facts and they certainly dilute Ms. Kloph's argument.
    If you want us "liberals " to listen to you include the full story on the range of the Caps, etc. Actually you don't really have a story. Try again!

  • John Bennett posted at 12:38 pm on Mon, Apr 22, 2013.

    JohnBennett Posts: 21

    First of all, Ms. Klopf, I'm shocked and surprised that the SF New Mexican even allowed an article as intelligent and straightforward as yours to even be printed.

    My parents always complained about rich people, and how poor people never got a break in life. It never occurred to them to stop complaining and do something about it. I learned on my own how important saving and working hard could benefit everyone around me, thus benefitting our society as well.

    I'm now considered the black sheep of the family, as I have been very successful, employ hundreds of people, didn't lose one employee during the downturn, and sent a child to college, the first college graduate in my family, ever. That's not helping society?

    This isn't about me, but I get why people grow up thinking they need the government to take care of them. "We need help" seems to be the battle cry of families like the one I grew up in. Granted, some people need help, but the numbers don't lie. If 50 million people were taken off food stamps, would 50 million people starve? The answer should be obvious to any thinking person.

    This has more to do with entitlement than it has to do with need. I'm grateful for my success, but I'm not sure if I'm going to keep working just to support a government that wants to take more from me because I supposedly don't "give" enough already.

    I can still look my grandchildren in the eye(s) and tell them to work hard and save their money and most importantly, think for themselves. Why? Because when the government gives you everything, they control what and how much you get. Think I'm wrong. Watch what happens to seniors after Obama changes the CPI calculations for Social Security. It' just the beginning...

  • JohnH posted at 12:05 pm on Mon, Apr 22, 2013.

    JohnH Posts: 1

    The tale of the grasshopper and the ant is an ancient and later medieval fable that espouses the wisdom of hard labor and the folly of improvidence. Embedded in it's conclusion, however, is the selfish, uncharitable message when the grasshopper, dying from hunger, begs the ant for food and is coldly advised to dance all winter. Unfortunately, it is the latter, darker meaning that has struck a chord in Ms. Knopf.
    Too bad she apparently was never was exposed to the alternative version of the tale in which the ant had been a farmer who, because he stole from his neighbors at night, angered the gods who transformed him into an ant. Despite the change of appearance, he did not change his nature and so went about gathering and hoarding the fruits of other people's labor for himself. It is to the import of the alternate tale that President Obama's proposed measure regarding capping 401k and IRA contributions seems to respond.

    Ms. Knopf's problem is that she is blinded by her own political stereotypes. (Thrice she ham-fistedly sets up "liberal Democrats" and "liberal ideology" as the evil straw man in her own morality tale. And she wastes half of her words raising the specter of Marx and Soviet Russia rather than soberly discussing the specific tax proposals in the light of contemporary American social realities. Lost in the netherworld of her own simplistic abstractions, she entirely misses the point.

    President Obama does not want to reward profligate grasshopppers and discourage industrious ants from saving. His proposal to cap annual 401k and IRA contributions at $205,000 and lifetime limit them at $2.2 million (which facts Ms. Knopf conveniently omits) is clearly not aimed at the middle class at all. And it is not even an attack on savings. It is a limit on the SUBSIDIZATION of savings, of tax advantages to those who clearly do not need them. Wealthy individuals who want to set aside and accumulate wealth above those vaulty proposed ceilings on 402k and IRA contributions would still be free to do so and, by the way, continue to be subsidized by another tax advantage, the current low capital gains tax rates.

    So you see, Ms. Knopf, the hard working bourgeoisie that you believe in is the same middle class who President Obama has championed in dozens of speeches and whose interest his tax policies are meant to encourage. I suggest that in the future you stick to the facts, Ms. Knopf, and avoid flighty, fairy tale analyses of our contemporary political and social problems.

  • lance peeples posted at 5:22 pm on Sun, Apr 21, 2013.

    Lance Peeples Posts: 11

    Moral hazard? Permanent handouts? Self-interest? Civil-minded behavior?

    Tell me Dorothy, which description of yours would you ascribe to Chevron Corp. who is suing the government to pay for the clean-up their own mine, as seen in the article in today's paper?

  • kayuko posted at 4:24 pm on Sun, Apr 21, 2013.

    kayuko Posts: 5

    I think you missed the point. Her parents wanted her to identify with hard-working ants, which she now does. Grasshopper wanted to be taken care of by the ants. Who doesn't place their self interest above all else? "I want to work and take care of my own" is as much of a self interest as "I want you to work and take care of me so I don't have to".
    Thanks, Dorothy, for offering an opposing opinion.

  • MeeMaw posted at 9:35 am on Sun, Apr 21, 2013.

    MeeMaw Posts: 1

    [sad] Dorothy's story is a case study for the "nature vs. nurture" question that has been debated for decades. According to Dorothy her parents tried to teach her the value of helping others (nurture) but it appears that her base nature won in the long run. Unfortunately, our world has many people just like Dorothy who places self and her self interest above all else. But for Dorothy to suggest that those less fortunate then her do not respect successful people, do not work hard, are not proud of their accomplishments, are neither law abiding nor civil-minded is absolutley laughable.

    I would say to Dorothy that the savers of society are not those consumed in their own self interests such as herself, but by those hard working, law-abiding successful, civic minded individuals that help those less fortunate then themselves. This is not Marxim as Dorothy suggests, but human decency.


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