Letters to the editor, July 3, 2014

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Posted: Wednesday, July 2, 2014 9:00 pm | Updated: 1:10 am, Thu Jul 3, 2014.

I have a friend who sarcastically wondered if buggy whip manufacturers should have been kept alive when automobiles replaced the horse and carriage. Today, I see the results of extreme wealth and its ever-expanding political access doing just that.

Many around the globe are far ahead of the U.S. in manufacturing, energy development and conservation techniques.

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Welcome to the discussion.


  • AGarcia posted at 9:20 am on Thu, Jul 10, 2014.

    AGarcia Posts: 16

    This was not done for religous freedom & anyone who thinks that has their heads under rocks. This was done #1 to avoid Obamacare. Period. The push was to politicize a hot button issue & open the door for discrimination based on ONE religion. Period. I guarantee you that if Muslims, Wiccans, Mormons, Scientoligists, or even Satanists would have pushed that "christians" would be up in arms.
    We didn't come here for religious reasons but to escape taxation without representation AND we do so at the expense of indigineous Americans. As immigrants, we pushed our lifestyle down the throats of those who were here & in the name of religion, discriminated against blacks, females & so many more.
    Furthermore these so-called "abortifacients" aren't. These options fail to allow fertilized eggs attach to the uterine wall. The female is not pregnant at any time. Period. No abortion.
    Finally, birth control has significantly DROPPED the abortion rate.
    I'm neither aethist, abortion rights advocate or any other "zealot" you speak of but as a female, I do cast a stink eye on the fact that 4 white, middle aged males made a decision that will, has & can affect how businesses (not people, businesses) can openly & legally discriminate against others.

  • Peter Neal posted at 8:59 am on Mon, Jul 7, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 289

    Sorry- the last word in my post below was "contraceptives".

  • Peter Neal posted at 8:58 am on Mon, Jul 7, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 289

    Ms Daigle, if you have read one of my other posts you would have seen that I am NOT necessarily in favor of insurance plans pay for Viagra unless insurance companies choose to do itand I still do not agree with your opinion that women's legal rights to contraception and reproductive health decisions should trump the religious beliefs of those who are ask to subsidize the cost of those contra s*** sentence

  • Claudia Daigle posted at 6:59 am on Mon, Jul 7, 2014.

    Claudiaa Posts: 7

    Mr. Neal, would your Viagra be that important to you? Many women use contraception for many reasons...some for health, most are married and their family cannot financially support more children, but, the bottom line is it is a legal right as well as a moral right for a woman to have control over her own reproduction and healthcare. It shouldn't take a magna cum laude graduate to realize that more birth control availability will cut down on abortions.

  • Claudia Daigle posted at 6:35 am on Mon, Jul 7, 2014.

    Claudiaa Posts: 7

    And, as Ms. Bizzarro mentioned...I believe that phrase, "one nation, under God" that was carefully interjected into our Pledge of Allegiance should be removed to restore the true and more powerful meaning......"one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all", just as the word "Primarily" should be removed from the IRS 501c(4) non-profit status description and the word "Exclusively" restored. The IRS change happened in the late 50's as well.

  • Claudia Daigle posted at 6:17 am on Mon, Jul 7, 2014.

    Claudiaa Posts: 7

    Excellent post, Ms. Bizzarro. You are so correct about China being the biggest abortionist and Hobby Lobby's dependence on them. There is also the fact that Hobby Lobby is an investor in the manufacturers of birth control pharmaceuticals so they enjoy profiting from the right of a woman to choose but, they don't support a woman's right to choose. I'll bet they don't have a problem allowing their male employees to have their Viagra?

  • Peter Neal posted at 8:03 pm on Sun, Jul 6, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 289

    Mr. Hayes, while your post below was applauded by Ms. Bizzarro, who of course agrees with your writing off people of religion as superstitious simpletons who can't think for themselves, and need "stories" to fulfill their meaningless lives, I think it is a little more complex than that. Religion, Spirituality, whatever you want to call it, in all it's forms, will still be around for thousands of years, long after you, me, and Ms Bizzarro have turned to dust. People are not all like you, and can't always feel fulfilled by "science". I'm not religious, but I have no problem with those that are, or those that express their religion openly. I'm not saying you mock or ridicule them, but a lot of people do. While I don't condone those that try to force their religious beliefs on others, I don't think it is right for nonbelievers to trample on people's religious rights either.. I think atheists need to lighten up and live and let live. There is a way for everyone to coexist.

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 4:26 pm on Fri, Jul 4, 2014.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 481

    Mr. Hayes,

    An excellent, thoughtful post! I believe we may know thinkers in common, perhaps Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson?


  • Pat Shackleford posted at 2:51 am on Fri, Jul 4, 2014.

    Pat Shackleford Posts: 568

    I don't have specifics about Koch cash going to Martinez. I was just showing that their efforts through various PACs or super pacs are more extensive than the donations which have their personal name on them.

    It's almost impossible (in the many times I've tried) to post an actual working link here at the SFNM. However, if you copy & paste the Politico address I posted, it DOES go to the article. I just now tested it. I think the New Mexican must have software which thwarts posting of links. Maybe that's explained in the "Rules for the Unruly Commenter" section, but I haven't checked there.

  • Peter Neal posted at 11:22 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 289

    Ooooo- look who's mad now.

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 11:06 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 481

    My dear Mr. Neal,

    Stating the fact of my qualifications to debate constitutional law is not bragging; it is a fact. That it seems to anger you is unfortunate, but I am indeed qualified and have been for many years.

    You, sir, have no idea what I have read, whether or not my professors were "liberal" or "conservative," nor or whether the appointments I have held were under "liberal" or "conservative" administrations.

    That "24 of the 56 founding fathers held bible or seminary degrees" is quite impressive for the 1700s. Today, they would be lucky to work for the State of New Mexico. "Many of the founding fathers were private about their religion- not bible thumping evangelicals?" You've proved my point! That is why they left God and religion OUT of the Constitution. Only in the 21st century have the Supremes seen fit to cram them in that marvelous document along with the idea corporations granted human rights.

    Where are corporations covered in the Ten Commandments? And in which version of the Ten Commandments? King James? New King James? Church of England? Catholic? Torah? I could go on, but I tire of this second year tripe.

  • Mel Hayes posted at 9:32 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Hobson Posts: 117

    Thousands of years ago our ancestors made up stories about gods who threw thunderbolts, or had chariots that created thunder. We no longer need these stories as science has carefully explained these phenomena well. We are now in the process of unraveling how the human mind works. It will take a while but we will find, that as with all biological processes, it is driven by a finite set of biochemical reactions and interactions. Just like thunder and lightening , we will someday understand the complex processes of consciousness and we will no longer need stories to explain them. When those days come, those educated and open minded enough to embrace what science has given them will have to face the reality that our consciousness is finite, limited by the frailty of our bodies. I do believe that we live on after our death. We live in the influence, education and inspiration we have given to others. We live on in those we have affected most, whether by good deeds or education. In short our legacy is written by how we have lived our lives, not by belief in the supernatural.

  • Peter Neal posted at 9:21 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 289

    Ok, now that you've taken the opportunity to brag about your degree- there is plenty of literature disputing the religious beliefs of the founding fathers, and plenty to the contrary. I suspect your professors (liberals, perhaps? ) gave you select reading assignments. If you took it upon yourself to go beyond "approved reading" you would know that 24 of the 56 founding fathers held bible or seminary degrees (Mary Fairchild, "Christian quotes of the Founding Fathers") that is not insignificant. Many of the founding fathers were private about their religion- not bible thumping evangelicals.

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 7:47 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 481

    Mr. Neal,

    Having graduated magna cum laude in constitutional law from a top 10 law school, I wonder if you may have any reading suggestions for me, sir?

    And which of the "Founding Fathers" was deeply religious? This ought to be of great interest.

  • Peter Neal posted at 7:39 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 289

    Pat, it may surprise you to hear that I agree with you. I am not a religious zealot trying to push my beliefs on others. Anyone who knows me will verify that. In this Hobby Lobby case, however, I think there is a predictable over-reaction from the atheist types who just go nuts any time Christians get their way. I'm fed up with those who bash people with religious beliefs every chance they get. It's not like these women won't still have access to multiple forms of contraception. And if it's really that important to them, well, yes, they can get a job elsewhere. It's not like Hobby Lobby is the only retailer in town that's hiring. Just give this "war on women" crap a rest- jeez.....

  • Peter Neal posted at 7:17 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 289

    It is no secret that the laws of this country were based (and not loosely) on the ten commandments. It is also no secret that the majority of the early settlers in America came here to escape religious persecution- so they could practice their religion freely. It is also no secret that the founding fathers were, almost to a man, deeply religious. To say that the founding of this country "may or may not" have had anything to do with "God" or the "Church" is a ridiculous understatement. Time to dust off those history books, Ms. Bizzarro.

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 5:42 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 481

    Excellent, informative post, Ms. Benni!

    There will be many more cases brought before the Supremes before we become such a totalitarian society that the Big Eraser comes out and wipes the slate clean. Legal pundits estimate ten to 20 years. I’d rather take to the streets now and lose but gather momentum. My suggestion is this: let’s close HobbyLobby. Just one in NM.

    • Enlist the help of the “Christian Right-to-Lifers,” the very people who made this happen. They should know that HobbyLobby depends on the worlds’ biggest ABORTIONIST as a main supplier of its goods. China, until a few weeks ago, made ABORTION MANDATORY for every woman who has borne a child. Now, she may petition the government for a second.

    • Everyone who cannot believe this decision happened in the US should find other places to shop. There is nothing unique in HobbyLobby, and its music
    stinks. Even if it was Fifth Avenue with a trip to the Met, I would not go if my fellow humans were treated so badly while my corporation/human reaped the benefits of personhood religion. Yarn? Note cards? Stencils? Lots of other places, and it’s all non-essential.

    • We can get nothing out of any of the candidates, but we can back them into a corner. Keep it in the news with Letters to the Editor, Opinion, Facebook.

    • Lastly, those of us with hiring power should give preference to those from HobbyLobby who lose their jobs.

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 4:24 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 481

    Messrs. Friedman, Shakleford and Hayes, Good and thoughtful posts, but I think we're casting pearls before swine on this one. It never ceases to amaze me how far some "Christians" will go to force their particular brand of Christianity's beliefs on others--no matter what Jesus may or may not have had to say on the matter. Members of other religions must certainly laugh at us when we call them terrorists for their outrageous beliefs when they are judged by loud, unreasonable terrorists who may or may not reflect the teachings of Mohammed. I am told the Holy Qur'an does not teach such hatred. The Old Testament/Torah does not.

    Mr. Neal, can you see anything in common with the jihadists of today? How about with the Crusaders of the Middle Ages? The Inquisitors of Spain? This country of ours was not founded "by God" or "by the Church" although they may or may not have something to do with it. And before you get started on yet another diatribe, "One nation, under God" did NOT become part of our pledge of Allegiance until the 1950s. Look it up. Dwight D. Eisenhower was president.

  • Staci Benni posted at 2:22 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Sta Benni Posts: 172

    Five men have determined what means all women who have health insurance under the ACA can use for contraceptive purposes to serve corporative interests. Some observers say the ruling is limited to privately held corporations but in fact it applies to closely held corporations. THe IRS definition for that term covers about 90 % of the corporations currently in existence in the US.

  • Mel Hayes posted at 12:12 pm on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Hobson Posts: 117

    No one ever wins an argument over religion, higher powers or spiritually. Opinion plays no role because nobody can prove or disprove whether or not anything surrounding this is true. It's too personal, regardless whether it's a true feeling, the result of brainwashing or whatever. Religion can have it's place, but never in the doing of the people's work by government.

  • Pierce Knolls posted at 10:15 am on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 1675

    Here's the quote from Terrell's story: "Koch Industries has contributed $4,694 to Martinez's campaign this year and contributed $10,000 to her 2010 campaign. In addition, Koch Industries contributed $5,000 to the governor's political committee, SusanaPAC, which mainly is used to contribute to other Republican candidates in the state."

    If you have any evidence of additional Koch money flowing to Susana, I'd certainly like to see it. Your Politico link takes me to a "page not found" notice.

  • Pat Shackleford posted at 9:50 am on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Pat Shackleford Posts: 568

    The Constitution not only protects the rights of the religious, but the rights of those who wish to not be impeded in their "life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness" by zealots who seek to impose their beliefs and code of conduct (and superstitions) upon others.

    Many interpret the first amendment to guarantee freedom of, and FROM, religion, as Justice Hugo Black wrote in 1947;
    "The "establishment of religion" clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can it pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion to another ... in the words of Jefferson, the [First Amendment] clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect 'a wall of separation between church and State' ... That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach."

    Interpretation of the first amendment is debatable, but there certainly should be freedom "FROM" any church's religious code or rules being imposed upon others.

  • Pat Shackleford posted at 9:28 am on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Pat Shackleford Posts: 568


    It's their PAC's, or political action committees, which funnel many millions into political campaigns across the country. A June 16 Politico article (link above) reports that their new newest PAC, the Freedom Partners Action Fund, "aims to spend more than $15 million in the 2014 midterm campaigns — part of a much larger spending effort expected to total $290 million, sources told POLITICO. '

    By not declaring or considering the money their super-pacs contribute, you can give the impression that their personal donations are minor and insignificant.

  • Pierce Knolls posted at 8:27 am on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 1675

    Regarding J. Dan Dougharty's letter, a previous piece by Terrell in this paper revealed that this election and 2010 the Koch brothers have spent a grand total of just under $20,000 on Susana's gubernatorial campaigns. That's just a third of what the unions and their shadowy PACs spent to buy Javier Gonzales his mayoral seat here in Santa Fe. So who is really buying influence?

  • Peter Neal posted at 7:44 am on Thu, Jul 3, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 289

    Mr Friedman, the ruling applies to four (abortifacient) methods , leaving sixteen types of contraceptive available to people affected by this decision. I'm not sure what "religious rights" you are referring to, but the Constitution does not guarantee freedom FROM religion- if you are confused about that I suggest you read it. I'm sure Obama will find a way to use taxpayer money to offer these abortifacient to women for free anyway, so you'll get what you want.


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