BAG BAN Council passes plastic bag ban

Rules of Conduct

  • 1 No Alias Commenters must use their real names.
  • 2 Keep it Clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually-oriented language.
  • 3 Don't Threaten or Abuse. Threats of harming another person will not be tolerated. and please turn off caps lock.
  • 4 Be Proactive. Use the 'Report' link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.

Welcome to the discussion.


  • Dave Ciukowski posted at 9:42 am on Thu, Sep 26, 2013.

    d ski Posts: 10

    Natural Grocers by Vitamin cottage has been bagless for over 4 years now!

  • mark mocha posted at 4:24 pm on Thu, Sep 5, 2013.

    brnfre47 Posts: 211

    It's not the opinion that bothers me, it's the smug, self righteousness. I love debating, exchanging ideas, actually being wrong from time to time. What I don't like is someone who dismisses others thoughts/ideas with a cruel mean spirited wave of the pen. Very sad indeed.....

  • mark mocha posted at 4:15 pm on Thu, Sep 5, 2013.

    brnfre47 Posts: 211

    Gotta have the last word, huh? No such luck here. I could care less about converting others and I do respect others opinions. It's the others that have no respect for my right to have a different opinion. You know what you can do with your smug self righteousness.

  • Pierce Knolls posted at 10:28 am on Thu, Sep 5, 2013.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 3071

    This editorial in the New Mexican proves that the greenies have no intention of stopping at just banning plastic shopping bags: http://tinyurl.com/bag-ban-just-first-step

    "...Santa Fe will start examining other ways to protect the environment — what to do about disposable plastic bottles is already being discussed."

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 9:46 pm on Wed, Sep 4, 2013.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 618

    Mr. Mocha:

    Take a deep breath and chill. Plastic, paper, whatever you say. World War II, Vietnam, whatever, Go for it. I don't care for dogma.

    The last time I was told I should "Be grateful" for something, the answer was "Yes, Sister" and was a kid enrolled at Our Lady of Perpetual Sorrows. The subject was oatmeal and I suggested we mail it to India since the kids there were hungry and my class hated oatmeal.

    I can respect the opinion of others without attempting to convert them. Move on.

  • mark mocha posted at 2:28 pm on Tue, Sep 3, 2013.

    brnfre47 Posts: 211

    What's so scary about that? A function of any government is to pass, uphold and repeal laws. Duh? How does that put us on the same level as China? And most laws (and bans) are enacted in response to the concerns of the majority. You may find this hard to believe but the majority of people in this country want a cleaner environment. Having a cleaner environment will without a doubt require a certain amount of sacrifice, something that for some reason we as a people have been finding it harder and harder to do. It was not that long ago that this country and her people made enormous sacrifices to aid the war effort during world war 2. Now people debate giving up plastic bags like they are a family member.
    As a nation we have more personal freedoms than any other country in the world, and I should know having travelled to many of them yet we complain and bicker about lost freedoms. No developed country has such access to firearms yet we complain about that too. Our fuel is some of the cheapest in the world and we complain about that. We have become a fat, lazy, spoiled and self indulgent society with the only thing missing is a man in a toga fiddling while Washington burns. You don't want a prius? Be grateful you have that choice.

  • Pierce Knolls posted at 11:04 am on Tue, Sep 3, 2013.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 3071

    Well, for starters it was intended as a bit of hyberbole, a satirical exaggeration of the threat posed by creeping environmentalism. I think it's obvious that a plastic bag ban, or even government mandated vegetarianism, can't be compared to the horrors suffered by the victims of the Nazis, and it would be insulting to those victims to claim otherwise.

    Niemöller was warning us about the slippery slope consequences of ignoring creeping expansion of government oppression and power, in the context of the horrors of the holocaust. But if we ignore Niemöller's warning about the dangers of the slipper slope until it's obvious that our government is too powerful and oppressive to be reined in, then we haven't understood his message at all. If one passively allows the government to take away all of those rights one doesn't consider to be important or freedoms one considers insignificant, then eventually the government will run out of unimportant or inconsequential rights or freedoms to take away, and then mightn't government just move on to the important and consequential rights and freedoms?

    But hey, they're just "trying to make this world of ours a better place," right?

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 6:52 pm on Sat, Aug 31, 2013.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 618

    Mr Mocha!

    "Finally, it is one of the jobs of government to make laws that protect, limit, allow and disallow. That is what governments do." Did you really MEAN to say/write that??? Wow! scary!

    Now, isn't that exactly what the People's Republic of China did when they became concerned about overpopulation and the problems their country faced when attempting to feed so many people? The government simply limited people to one child.

    I've noticed you've mentioned your children (in the plural). Would you not consider Mr. Koolpe's reliance on humankind's technological abilities a better solution to growing environmental problems than choosing which child you could live without, especially in a male dominated society? If things keep going the way certain groups and protesters want, the Chinese women will have it better than the women in many parts of America. They will still have the freedom of choice; the ability to choose the time in their lives and yes, the sex, of the one precious child they are allowed to have.

    This is not just about plastic bags; it is about myriad solutions in a complex universe. Talking about our own backyards has become trite.

    And I don't want a Prius.

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 11:00 am on Sat, Aug 31, 2013.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 618

    Mr. Mocha:
    One thing I would suggest to anyone applying for a job is to read the job qualifications and job description: realize that your agent, spin doctor or resume’ only gets you in the door, that you are required to perform. Your boss and co-workers don’t really care about your back story, i.e., how difficult it was for you to graduate college, go to law school, attain greatness—whatever. For the most part, they have their own stories and role models and you’re not it.

    That said, your amended hypothesis about the current governor remains the same. New Mexico has had many Hispanic/Latino governors and many from the working class. Lots were Republicans. This one puts on her pants—and she wears them—one leg at a time, just as they did. There’s just one thing different about her: she is a woman. To ask that we cut her some slack, give her a break, whatever it is you and others think voters and proponents of change need do is the same as saying, “Help the little lady out! She’ll catch on!” That is sexism at its worst.

    I agree with Mr. Knolls; I hoped for better from her. Sadly, I was disappointed. She's just another state employee with the advantage of having a four-year contract; most get a shorter probation—six months?

    Some Republicans are preparing smoke and mirrors for a bigger stage where the carnival barker calls , “Step right up folks! Vote for the Latina from the Mesilla!

    (Mesilla Valley/Dona Ana County)

  • Pierce Knolls posted at 9:11 am on Sat, Aug 31, 2013.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 3071

    I was originally a supporter of Susana's, but so far I've found her and her circle of advisers and minions to be ham-fisted, bumbling, and ineffective. She's got one last legislative session to prove she's figured out how to get the job done before she stands for reelection, she better make the most of it.

  • mark mocha posted at 3:25 am on Sat, Aug 31, 2013.

    brnfre47 Posts: 211

    Uhh.... better for everyone. You don't have to support someone because they have a vagina, you support someoine because of the challenges and roadblocks (people who vote/judge down party lines) they overecome to get where they are. The fact that she is an hispanic woman should empower others with similar backgrounds giving we the voters more choices instead of the same tired old men who seem to be in perpetual campaign mode. Choice AND change are good things. I'm not saying that she is perfect, i am a liberal after all, all i'm saying is that she deserves a fighting chsance before she gets kicked to the curb.

  • T Lanzilli posted at 10:00 pm on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    Lanzilli8 Posts: 1

    Add Portland, OR and a number of other cities to the list of those taking a HUGE step forward in progressing their cities. Good job, Santa Fe! And kudos to all the citizens who spoke up in favor of this measure at City Hall!

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 6:49 pm on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 618

    There used to be a Commission on the Status of Women--in fact, it is still listed on the governor's website. There is no such entity; according to this "role model" to females, it is no longer necessary to study women's issues so she dissolved the Commission. There were only three people on it to represent all the women of the Great State of New Mexico--such a beacon of enlightenment would have increased its size to increase opportunity.

    Just sayin'

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 6:16 pm on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 618

    Better for whom? Just because women have vaginas doesn't mean we vote with them.

  • mark mocha posted at 3:30 pm on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    brnfre47 Posts: 211

    Hispanic, a female in a notorious men only culture, not completely a party liner. I think she has done well for herself and should be a role model for other minority women who think that the elevator only goes so high for them. I am not a Republican but I can recognize her guts and determination to get where she is right now. Why is it so hard for some to do that. She desrves support, support from her party and support from womens groups. Perhaps if you did that instead of tearing her down things would be better.

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 2:33 pm on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 618

    PS--Less than half the jobs are covered by a union. Another myth that the SF New Mexican never fully exposes. For example, when they covered Lucky Varela's request for all the state employees to get a 1% raise, it was because only 11,000 were slated to get one--those represented by a union. Hence Enrique Knell's quote about the "unfortunate decision" when our Supreme Court ruled that the governor had to honor the collective bargaining agreement and pay union employees five years' back pay.

    Susana and her crew are the knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, vacant staring people I see in government offices, although she has learned to smile on cue for the cameras (but her boy Enrique works really hard). As a lawyer, she still needs a course in ethics. One cannot pick and choose which laws to honor and which to ignore.

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 2:13 pm on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 618

    We do have different viewpoints and I really do respect yours, no matter how much we parry and thrust on issues.

    And I really agree with your view as it applies to the governor and her appointees. However, an employed populace whether by a government entity or by private industry all pay taxes and as such, are all taxpayers. Taxpayers shop, buy cars, clothes, insurance, get "fries with that" and support the basics of the economy with a modicum of dignity.

    Why, they may even go grocery shopping and buy some of those fancy 10-cent paper bags that are being forced upon us. Next, they will get another 1% raise and be forced to buy a Prius! [crying]

  • Pierce Knolls posted at 12:46 pm on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 3071

    Well, I don't advocate for filling unnecessary state (or municipal) union jobs, at taxpayer expense, just for the sake of claiming to have created jobs. That's not really job creation, it's just a bribe to union lackeys lifted directly from the pockets of taxpayers. And judging by the amount of knuckle dragging, mouth breathing, vacant staring, and gossipy chatting I see every time I'm at a state or municipal office, we've got enough lackeys on the dole (I mean "filling positions") already.

    When Coss promised 4,000 jobs, I was hoping he meant jobs doing productive work that positively contributes to society and the economy, not just pointless positions collecting taxpayer siphoned funds.

  • Jennifer Bizzarro posted at 11:28 am on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    Jennifer_Bizzarro Posts: 618

    Hey Pierce!

    I've been watching Economic Development numbers very carefully and I know Coss said it but I don't think he can possibly deliver in time to save face or anything else. Those jobs are just not here and the film industry is pulling out as well. He cannot create them out of thin air, but there's someone who is holding back on the citizens and voters:

    There are about 1,200 jobs in Santa Fe, including the ones that require asking customers if they would like fries with their order. But there are nearly 5,000 state jobs available according to Susana's Sunshine Portal (195 in Santa Fe). For some reason, the State Personnel Office is disobeying our governor's campaign promise of "transparency in government" so she'd be better than previous administrations.

    The State Personnel Office is only hiring for 699 positions as of 11 a.m. 8/30/2012 while Susana lists 4,690 open positions statewide. Granted, some of the positions with the state are very low pay ($7.59 per hour) but some pay as much as $48.64 an hour.

    I'm with you on this one, only I think I've found the jobs--they're just in a different office building.

  • Pierce Knolls posted at 10:13 am on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 3071

    First they came for the plastic bags, and I said nothing, because I can afford ten cent paper bags.

    Then they came for the diapers, and I said nothing, because I don't have any kids.

    Then they came for the water bottles, and I said nothing, because I use stainless steel bottles.

    Then they came for the swamp coolers, and I said nothing, because I have refrigerated air.

    Then they came for the glass wine bottles, and I said nothing, because I'm really more of a beer guy...

    I think we're gonna be sorry once the greenies have checked all the easy little things off their list of stuff to ban and start in on gasoline rationing, intrusive water restrictions, and forced vegetarianism. But hey, they're just "trying to make this world of ours a better place," whether we like it on not, right?

  • Jonathan Koolpe posted at 10:01 am on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    TempestMan Posts: 26

    Mark: I do see your points here believe it or not regarding your environmental concerns, some of which I do share :) . However, it is my belief that technology will solve these problems. What I mean is that somewhere along the line, a technology will be invented that, if proposed to you and I today, would seem as magic and/or completely impossible/insane. But history has shown time and time again that mankind finds the solutions to his problems through innovation rather than simplistic, short-sighted efforts full of unintended consequences (such as is my opinion regarding these plastic bag bans) that usually result in more harm than good. The late author Michael Crichton gave a terrific speech on this subject many years ago that really opened my eyes on these matters. And he was certainly one given to some serious critical thinking; I think we can all agree on that :) . Google it under "Aliens cause global warming." I particularly liked the bit about horse"Bleep." In conclusion: It is my opinion that we should pour all of these resources (including those currently focusing on these bans and/or other feel-good, freedom-restricting efforts) rather into straight up research to find these seemingly "magical" solutions. What seems impossible today will very likely become very possible at some point down the road of history...just look at all of the inventions just over the course of the past couple of decades! :)

  • mark mocha posted at 8:46 am on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    brnfre47 Posts: 211

    Y'know, I like posting here, like the friendly and not so friendly discourse. I can usually get a few yuks here, can usually yank a few chains too. That being said I am not getting any yuks from this. This has turned into a sad commentary for some about how spoiled and lazy we really are that we can not give up a lousy plastic bag and bring our own to the store and for others that this is the tip of another government intrusion into our liberties. How does a plastic bag become a constitutional issue? It's just a bag that either ends it's life carrying dog poop, filling our overfilled land fills or winds up blowing around the streets, canyons and mesas. I do a lot of camping and I can tell you from first hand experience that there are plenty of cheap plastic bags blowing around Pecos Baldy at 10,000 feet and that is quite sad. Of course I don't see any constitutional scholars up there telling the bags that they have a right to be there! Maybe next year.

  • mark mocha posted at 8:37 am on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    brnfre47 Posts: 211

    Isn't it though. People are making it into a constitutional issue. First our bags then who knows what.....
    You would think that people would be in favor of leaving the world a little bit cleaner than the way we found it. You would think.

  • mark mocha posted at 6:21 am on Fri, Aug 30, 2013.

    brnfre47 Posts: 211

    I guess what really kills me about this whole affair is that there is so much resistance to trying to make this world of ours a better place. And yes, it's just a plastic bag, but what happens when real changes come.... and they will have to come as the population grows. To think that life will go on as we now know it is totally unrealistic. What happens when real water conservation comes? When we go back to gas rationing? When we as a country can no longer produce the food needed to feed our own population? Don't believe me? Look at population growth charts. Look at projected harvest numbers as the population grows and as weather changes affect future harvests. These squabbles about things like plastic bags will seem silly when there is nothing on the shelves to put in plastic bags. Crazy? We shall see......

  • Pierce Knolls posted at 12:57 pm on Thu, Aug 29, 2013.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 3071

    Once they've successfully banned plastic bags, print newspapers, and bottles of all sorts, the city should consider banning all forms of air-conditioning. Someone let the kids at Wood Gormley Elementary School and teens from Earth Care Youth Allies that swamp-coolers waste water and refrigerated air-conditioners waste electricity. Let's get these kids working on making us endure globally warmed summers the green way!

  • Pierce Knolls posted at 12:42 pm on Thu, Aug 29, 2013.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 3071


    Obviously printed newspapers are an unnecessary waste of paper and a threat to the environment. I don't see how it's any more inconvenient for newspaper consumers to access their news on the internet than it is for grocery shoppers to bring their own grocery bags. I wonder if the New Mexican will jump on the "ban newspapers" bandwagon?

    Think of the children.

  • Jonathan Koolpe posted at 12:02 pm on Thu, Aug 29, 2013.

    TempestMan Posts: 26

    Once again I must let out a sigh. Mark: I must take issue in that I hurled no insults your way. Indeed, you insult me by implying that I am not using critical thinking by your judgment. I assure you that I am, but my conclusions simply do not match with yours as is of course the way it should be in an open society. I was as polite as possible as I merely presented my POV and then backed it up. You can either agree or not...obviously you do not. But again, I did not insult you and certainly did not intend to do so.

    And you betcha that I will continue to do my best to indeed vote those out of office who I do not agree with as I'm sure you will as well.

    Isn't it fascinating that 2 intelligent people can see an issue in such a completely different light?

    Well, I have said my piece and you have said yours. In the end, we shall see who is right...

    Take care.

  • Pierce Knolls posted at 11:04 am on Thu, Aug 29, 2013.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 3071

    I assume that next they'll ban wine bottles, and force us all to only buy wine that comes in recyclable boxes. Or maybe they'll ban bottled water, and force us all to only drink fluoridated tap water.

  • mark mocha posted at 10:55 am on Thu, Aug 29, 2013.

    brnfre47 Posts: 211

    So, anyone who disagrees with you is not having a civil discourse. Sheesh. And for the record, I do not need to have anyone "get to me". I can think on my own and come up with my own theories and solutions. It's called critical thinking. And also for the record. There is no hidden agenda, just people who care about the world we live in and don't want pollution, smog, litter, fracking and anything else that pollutes the environment in which my children are growing up in. Nothing sinister there.
    As for the lowly plastic bag, we have to start somewhere, there has to be a beginning to limiting the amount of non renewable products into the market. If not the plastic bag, then where. And I hardly see the plastic bag as the beginnings of limiting your freedoms. And the only person stuck in a box (and hurling insults which I choose to ignore) is you. You and your party line about how global warming does not exist and fracking is a good thing.
    Finally, it is one of the jobs of government to make laws that protect, limit, allow and disallow. That is what governments do. If you don't like your government vote them out of office. If the majority voted them in then put a nice big H on your chest and handle it.

  • Jonathan Koolpe posted at 10:29 am on Thu, Aug 29, 2013.

    TempestMan Posts: 26

    Sigh...the inevitable "conspiracy" straw man argument rears its ugly head once again rather than a civil debate on the issues. Well, I did not think I would be able to get through to you, but I figured it was worth a try since someone did eventually get through to me :). I'll try to explain again, but no more after this.

    You must think outside the "environmental" box, good sir. Right now you are so focused on the environment that this may be difficult. I know because I have been there in my younger days. There is most definitely a larger issue in play here, namely, when you allow your government to begin to dictate to you what you can and cannot do on seemingly small issues (even ones that you agree with), it inevitably leads to other losses of freedom that are not so little anymore. It is the lessons of history...not a conspiracy theory, simply an observation based on historical facts.

    Look no further than Mayor Bloomberg in NYC and all of the things he keeps trying to ban. Another good story involves the founder of Greenpeace who eventually realized the movement had lost sight of its ways in favor of overreaching government (and some other issues).

    Please think about what you are saying is all I am saying. If you still are stuck in your box, then we will have to just agree to disagree I guess...

  • Julian R. Grace posted at 9:52 am on Thu, Aug 29, 2013.

    Logies New Mexican Posts: 321

    Kinda like them paper bags, good for recycling all that wasted paper that comes with my subscription...

  • mark mocha posted at 8:49 am on Thu, Aug 29, 2013.

    brnfre47 Posts: 211

    Y'see, if you read the whole reply you would realize that my referencing those two failed nuclear plants was in reference to a totally different conversation that had little if anything to do with plastic bags. I was giving examples of how capable we are of destroying this planet. And they were good examples at that. You on the other hand decided to cherry pick my post in an effort to make me look stupid when in fact all you did was reveal that you have a habit of not finishing what you read. Bad habit at that. What would your English teacher say?

  • mark mocha posted at 8:43 am on Thu, Aug 29, 2013.

    brnfre47 Posts: 211

    What are you talking about? My cocoon? Slippery slope? Larger issues? Plastic bags harming the "very core" of our free society? You are obviously a conspiracy theorist looking for a cause. Sorry my good man but I can't help you. All I am advocating is the doing away with plastic bags for environmental reasons, not political ones. So if you can find a cloak and dagger inside those plastic bags then have at it.... but It seems to me that you could manufacture one all by yourself.

  • Pierce Knolls posted at 8:09 am on Thu, Aug 29, 2013.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 3071

    Mayor Coss, where are the 4,000 jobs?

  • oscar flores posted at 8:54 pm on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    Flores Oscar Posts: 1

    When they say 10 cents,they make it sound cheap, but its is not. Today I went shopping for groceries and I had to use 16 plastic bags to carry my groceries, which means that would have to pay one dollar and 60 cents, which sounds like higher tax to me. The government should make the stores pay for our bags, not the consumer. Food is already expansive in Santa Fe, why make it more? I think that the banning of plastic bags did not fully make sense, since they now have to cut more trees in order to meet the consumer demands from Santa Fe. The council should think of a solution. Use the 10 cents to plant a tree. Some stores already sale plastic reusable bags for about 5 dollars, which means that we will have to pay more than 10 cents to really make a difference. i think that there are other ways to conserve our environment. Why not make inmates plant trees? the process of making electricity is the largest producer of CO2 emissions in the USA. why not use other source of electricity?.

  • Dominic Montoya posted at 7:07 pm on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    Dominic Montoya Posts: 158

    Now that this silliness is over, maybe our City Council can actually tackle some real issues facing our city. Crime, economy, drought, etc. have all been put on the back burner for a debate over plastic bags? Pretty obvious that the leadership in this city has the priorities mixed up.

  • Patricio R. Downs posted at 4:48 pm on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    Patricio Downs Posts: 100

    (I posted previously but got moderated out because I didn't have my name on my profile link.)

    I'll start by saying that I'm not political in the least, and I'm respectful towards most. However, I'm not going to bring a filthy cloth bag (how often are they REALLY washed? Lord knows I wouldn't remember to.) or my own boxes to take my groceries home. Ten cents per bag for paper bags seems like a penalty to people who maybe can only buy enough groceries for the week. Not cool when you have to stock up on canned food and mac+cheese because that's what you can afford.

    Guess I'm going to be doing my shopping in Los Alamos or Espanola from now on.

  • Jolene Lockhart posted at 12:47 pm on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    Hart2Hart1111 Posts: 11

    • Sanitation Impact
    o Harmful bacteria can grown in the bottom of unwashed reusable grocery bags.
    Reusable bags require sanitation maintenance in ways that regular disposable bags do not. Fruits and vegetables, meats and dairy products can routinely leak substances as they sit inside disposable bags. As reporter Theresa Marchetta with ABC's "The Denver News" found, levels of bacteria, mold and yeast can be found in the bottoms of many of the reusable bags. The substances can contaminate fresh food that is loaded in the contaminated bag or cause illness for the person who may get it on their hands while loading and unloading the bags. Experts suggest that the bags should be washed each time they are used to help prevent contamination.

  • Jolene Lockhart posted at 12:45 pm on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    Hart2Hart1111 Posts: 11

    [scared]A 2008 "Wall Street Journal" article cites the Worldwatch Institute's estimate that 100 billion plastic bags are thrown away in the United States every year, further complicating landfill problems. So the idea of reusable bags sounds like the win-win answer to the problem. However, issues of environmental impact, landfill and sanitation can make reusable bags potentially harmful despite their projected positive impacts.
    • Waste Impact
    o Reusable bags that end up in the landfill decompose slower and are worse for landfill overcrowding.

  • Jolene Lockhart posted at 12:42 pm on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    Hart2Hart1111 Posts: 11

    [sad] Very unsanitary! There are going to be a lot of sick Santa Feans!!!
    Didn't any one do research on this?

  • Jonathan Koolpe posted at 11:20 am on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    TempestMan Posts: 26


    I strongly urge you to step back from your cocoon/outside of your bubble and listen to yourself. Banning this or banning that just because you say so...your wish is to force your viewpoint on everyone else, including those who may have perfectly valid reasons for seeing a particular issue in another light.

    This is the slippery slope of intolerance that leads to a much less free society in general. That is the MUCH larger issue in play here for me that goes way beyond silly feel-good bans that will make no real difference, but will harm the very core of our free society.

    What will you say when the powers-that-be decide to ban something that you consider vital but others do not?

    To paraphrase:

    "First they came for my XXXX, and I said nothing (or approved). Then they came for my XXXX, and I still said nothing. Then they came for me..."

    I once shared your passions on these issues, but my eyes were opened to this much more important and wider issue some time ago.

    No disrespect intended, but at least think about it my good man :) .

  • Pierce Knolls posted at 10:35 am on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 3071

    I remember back when plastic bags were the new thing. Plastic grocery bags were supposedly going to save the trees from a horrible fate. Now cutting down trees is green again, and plastic is the new pariah.

    By what percentage will the world's plastic bag consumption be reduced as a result of Santa Fe's plastic bag ban? If the statistic that we average 500 bags per person annually is correct, that means that Santa Fe's 70,000 residents use about 35 million plastic bags a year, which is just 0.001% of the 3.55 trillion plastic bags used annually by the world's 7.1 billion folks.

    To describe the impact on the earth's ecosystem of this ban as a drop in the bucket would be the wildest of overstatements, hyperbole to excess. Making everyone bring their own reusable bags grocery shopping may make the Prius-driving crowd feel self-righteous, but they haven't really accomplished much else.

  • Jonathan Koolpe posted at 10:14 am on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    TempestMan Posts: 26

    For those of you who see this for the red herring it is and still need the bags, just buy a case off of Amazon. They are very cheap...you can usually get a case of 500-1000 of the bags for about $15-$25. Just do a search for "plastic bag."

    I stocked up big time before the ban went into effect in my area (San Francisco/Bay Area), and I will buy a case when I finally do run out.

    BTW, this will slow down the lines at your local grocer even more, and I see the elderly and otherwise physically-impaired struggling all of the time with their purchases now. It also influences one's buying habits as you won't be able to stock up on items as much when they go on special (as you'll need enough bags to carry them out).

    In the end, this will make ZERO difference to the environment and may even be more costly (paper bags cost a LOT more to produce from an environmental standpoint).

    BTW, conflating nuclear disaster with plastic bag bans is quite humorous. And if one bans plastic water bottles, what will be the alternative? Glass is much more costly to produce, and will of course be much more dangerous to handle once thrown away. Why don't we just ban everything? What is banning always the automatic answer with no thought to the unintended consequences or possible workable compromise?

  • mark mocha posted at 9:26 am on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    brnfre47 Posts: 211

    My goodness. Such an inconvenience to have to bring your own bag to the store. What a bunch of spoiled wuzzies. Grow up and do one good thing for the environment. Ban shopping bags, plastic water bottles, and yeah.... ban disposable diapers. Cloth diapers are better for the baby anyway.

    And a final word to just me. Not to be hysterical but the planet aint fine and anyone who thinks otherwises really needs to start studying more science. Just look at fukushima. Y'know? The nuclear plant in japan? The one that is on the verge of contaminating the pacific ocean for generations to come and has already affected the lives of how many THOUSANDS? Waddaya think? That won't leave a mark? what about chernobyl? Hmm... what about all the nuclear watse storage facilities all around the world including this state? They aint going anywhere, and when we are gone they will corrode and spill.

    I guess this is just me being arrogant.

  • Gregorio Ambrosini posted at 9:17 am on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    Ambro Posts: 38

    Now that store will charge for paper sacks, I'll ask the store to help me take my groceries to my truck. One or two items at a time.

  • Trina Lujan posted at 8:54 am on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    Patrice Posts: 3

    Ooops, plastic bag! lol

  • Trina Lujan posted at 8:45 am on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    Patrice Posts: 3

    Did anyone else see the plastic in True Grit? Ridiculous!

  • Corey Taylor posted at 8:21 am on Wed, Aug 28, 2013.

    Coreytee Posts: 1

    I am so proud of these kids and their parents. These kids have worked hard to make this happen and it will make a positive difference for our city. Sophia and Ciara, I am proud to know you. I think it is sad that people have posted negative things about this. This is a good change and these kids have learned they can make a difference in the world with determination and organization. This is a step in the right direction and I hope the ban will include the heavier plastic soon.


Follow The Santa Fe New Mexican

Click to read the digital edition of Pasatiempo

View an exact replica of the latest edition of Pasatiempo magazine.