Quantcast

Cab driver alleges excessive force during traffic stop

Rules of Conduct

  • 1 No Alias Commenters must use their real names.
  • 2 Keep it Clean. Please avoid obscene, vulgar, lewd, racist or sexually-oriented language.
  • 3 Don't Threaten or Abuse. Threats of harming another person will not be tolerated. and please turn off caps lock.
  • 4 Be Proactive. Use the 'Report' link on each comment to let us know of abusive posts.

Welcome to the discussion.

104 comments:

  • Lewis Work posted at 1:25 pm on Wed, Apr 9, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    And SFPD still hasn't posted the dash-cam video of this incident on their YouTube page. It's looking more and more like SFPD is hiding something.

     
  • Steven Salemi posted at 9:39 am on Mon, Apr 7, 2014.

    Pguru Posts: 15

    Perhaps the driver had a reason for wanting to get out of the cab? And perhaps the legality of all this should be better, and more generally, recognized and understood?

    Viz, if a copy wants me to stay inside the car, but if it is perfectly legal for me to step outside of the car, then perhaps I may just choose to do what I want to do, rather than what the cop wants me to do, without getting beat up for it?

    The Policeman ASSAULTED the cab driver. Time will tell whether there was any good reason for doing so. Not for screwing up at that intersection -- it happens all the time, as I've noticed and pointed out -- and not for lacking insurance or registration documentation, all of which was safe and in order (as I pointed out) inside that glove box...

    As I said in

     
  • Max Verts posted at 9:21 am on Mon, Apr 7, 2014.

    Max Verts Posts: 19

    Excessive force - probably. But had the driver stayed in her cab and done as asked I'm almost certain we wouldn't be discussing this. There is absolutely no upside acting like a jerk at a traffic stop. Simple.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 8:47 am on Mon, Apr 7, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    SFPD still hasn't posed the dash-cam video of this incident. What are they hiding?

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 8:46 am on Mon, Apr 7, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    Read the story. The required insurance and registration documents were in the cab the whole time.

     
  • Peter Neal posted at 8:20 am on Mon, Apr 7, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 284

    The cabbie, who likely drives tens of thousands of miles per year on City streets, was almost certainly very familiar with the "confusing" intersection.
    She was also aware that the paperwork is required by law to be in the vehicle. It is not the Officer's job to call the dispatch center; ( " oh sure, Officer, we got the paperwork on that vehicle right here in the file cabinet, trust me"), Or drive over there to look at it.
    I doubt she was "frightened", since her demeanor was apparently angry and argumentative.
    While there may be valid concerns with the conduct of this officer, and a proper inquiry should be done, your arguments are the weakest.

     
  • Steven Salemi posted at 10:24 am on Sat, Apr 5, 2014.

    Pguru Posts: 15

    Continued: about that justifiably confused taxi driver. We know that the policeman might have recognized that the taxi driver was befuddled by the rules of this intersection, which could baffle an Einstein. We also know that the policeman would know that the insurance and registration paperwork for the cab was 1) handled by the cab company, not by the driver, and 2) was almost certainly in order, since cab companies tend to take care of such matters, being central to their business. Thirdly, we know that, more and more, ordinary citizens are actually frightened when stopped by the police, due to the increased militarization and aggressiveness of the force. My vote goes with this tax driver. Who got mistreated? Well, who's got the black eye?

     
  • Steven Salemi posted at 10:20 am on Sat, Apr 5, 2014.

    Pguru Posts: 15

    What do we know? We know that the St. Francis/Cerrillos intersection, with its mysterious "X Boxes," is confusing as hell, especially for first timers (tourists, visitors, etc). Is it okay to park on them (they aren't yellow), behind them, in front of them? How come when you are at that intersection, the two traffic lights you can see sometimes say different, contradictory things -- one light still green, one yellow? Which to obey?

    I've seen people actually get struck by the crossing gates, coming down on the roofs of their cars (almost comical), and once, when stopped at the intersection on my scooter, a confused tourist actually backed into (and almost over) me. Yup, it is one confusing intersection, that's for sure, and we have Bill Richardson's Quixotic Rail Runner Revenue-Draining Boondoggle to thank for the destruction of that intersection.

    And so might we forgive the taxi driver for being a bit confused? To Be Continued.

     
  • Mark Ordonez posted at 2:00 pm on Fri, Apr 4, 2014.

    marcoordonez Posts: 657

    They have to get their "story" straight so then they can "tell" us what we civilians are actually seeing. God knows, civilians are ignorant. Apparently what we think we see is a different reality than Police, Lawyer, Judge reality.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 9:13 am on Fri, Apr 4, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    SFPD still hasn't posted the dash-cam video. What are they hiding?

     
  • Mark Ordonez posted at 8:29 am on Fri, Apr 4, 2014.

    marcoordonez Posts: 657

    Baaaaaaaaaaaa

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 8:08 am on Fri, Apr 4, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    "She may have had a weapon for all the officer knows..l." - If "may have had a weapon" is all the justification an officer needs to violently subdue, beat, restrain, and arrest someone, then we're literally giving the cops carte blanche to do this to anyone.

    "If I had gotten out of my car to yell at you at a red light you might feel threatened." - Possibly, but I wouldn't be allowed to beat you up for it.

     
  • Gail Larson posted at 10:35 pm on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    Casper Posts: 9

    "STAY IN THE CAR." Is their anything complicated about that??? Yes, I am sympathetic to Ms. Bourgeoius......but if she isn't deaf, my sympathy stops there.

     
  • oscar michael posted at 6:28 pm on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    oscar mike Posts: 142

    I suppose your poop smells like roses? What excuses are you refering to? the story I read says that she was asked to stay in the car, given warning and asked to get back in the car, then warned again. Are you upset that it was a woman who had to be arrested for an action that occurs daily? This highly educated, and according to you "harmless" woman made a few bad decisions and unfortunately there were consequences to those actions. She could have stayed in the car. She could have gotten back in the car but she chose to argue the point. Do you not think that accepting the ticket and going to court to explain herself would have ended better for her? She posed a threat, whether you feel she was threatening or not is irrelevant. Women can be just as deadly as men. She may have had a weapon for all the officer knows and she is acting irrational. The officer was alone when the incident occurred and could not rely on the help of others officers while she was acting this way.
    If I had gotten out of my car to yell at you at a red light you might feel threatened. Why does the officer not get to feel the same, because he has a badge and sidearm? How about some personal responsibility?

     
  • Julian R. Grace posted at 5:57 pm on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    Logies New Mexican Posts: 108

    oscar & reni: just don't and probably never will get it. It was not appropriate under any of the given circumstances of this stop to use force. None of the "officer might be in jeopardy" scenarios posted give rise to Gutierrez's need to beat her up. But you all did come up with at least twenty different "excuses" for this bully's behavior. And we all know what excuses are like...everybody has one.

     
  • oscar michael posted at 3:09 pm on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    oscar mike Posts: 142

    eeee bro! you dont have to be all ascared! All we have to do is disband the police and corrections officers in new mexico. We would put up cameras to catch law breakers, and when they are seen by those cameras we will have the governor write them a letter telling them how disappointed we are in their behavior. If you feel you need discipline for your offense then you would drive to the nearest detention facility and sign in as a guest. While there we could have bubble baths and wine tastings to calm the angry criminals who have turned themselves in. Instead of orange jumpsuits that make you feel all guilty, we would have stacks of flannel one piece pajamas and comfy fuzzy slippers to wear while you are being self detained. After your rehabilitation we could have the offender give a testimonial about how well the treatment worked and put up billboards across the state to educate other criminals about the new process. Complete with smiling faces giving a thumbs up, saying "it worked for me!"

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 1:58 pm on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    "I know you think the officer should have first subdued her with kind words, but that may have been impossible as she approached him..." - Both Officer Gutierrez and Ms. Bourgeois claim that after Ms. Bourgeois got out of the vehicle, it was the officer who approached her, not the other way around. Maybe he should have just given her a few more minutes to try and locate the insurance and registration documents before he decided to confiscate her keys and start the impound process?

    If the dash-cam video proves that Officer Gutierrez gave Ms. Bourgeois repeated verbal commands to get back in her vehicle, why doesn't SFPD post that video and vindicate their officer?

    If the dash-cam video proves that Officer Gutierrez's use of force wasn't excessive or brutal, then why doesn't SFPD post that video and vindicate their officer?

    The longer SFPD sits on that video, the guiltier it makes Officer Gutierrez look. Personally, I don't think we're going to see that video until a court orders its release either because of a trial or because of a FOIA request.

     
  • Mark Ordonez posted at 1:33 pm on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    marcoordonez Posts: 657

    They have to get their "story" straight so then they can "tell" us what we civilians are actually seeing. God knows, civilians are ignorant. What we think we are seeing, isn't reality. We need law enforcement to 'splain their truth, I mean OUR truth according to them. Be patient Lewis, we sheep will be shown the way.
    I can't wait because I feel so alone and ascared when I try to think for myself.

     
  • oscar michael posted at 1:15 pm on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    oscar mike Posts: 142

    I know you think the officer should have first subdued her with kind words, but that may have been impossible as she approached him after being told twice to get back in her car. Maybe he also should have used magic to make the cuffs appear on her wrists before he actually got a hold of them.. We should confiscate all officers firearms and trade them for bubble blowers. Maybe instead of citations they could issue rainbow colored, biodegradable handkerchiefs? Maybe she would have responded better if the officer first counted to 10 and then placed her in a "timeout"area?

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 12:57 pm on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    If SFPD believed that Officer Gutirerrez didn't abuse his power during this incident, then wouldn't they have posted the dash-cam video on their YouTube site: https://www.youtube.com/user/SantaFePolice/feed

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 12:44 pm on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    "A person who resists restraints during a traffic stop may subdued with greater force"

    Of course, in this case it appears to have happened in the reverse order, body-slam and black eye first, restraints second.

     
  • John Michaelson posted at 12:15 pm on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    A_Michaelson Posts: 3

    Great question! LOL

     
  • oscar michael posted at 12:06 pm on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    oscar mike Posts: 142

    [thumbup] Finaly! thinking, responsible people! I knew there were some left in santa fe.

     
  • Mark Ordonez posted at 10:58 am on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    marcoordonez Posts: 657

    Phaedra, Why no mentioned 5 SFPD patrol cars were dispatched to the scene? Hell they were all probably near by at the Dunkin Doughnuts.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 10:31 am on Thu, Apr 3, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    "Do you really think officer gutierez arrived on shift that night and started searching for a 40 year old woman to abuse?" - Do you have any evidence to contradict that hypotheses?

     
  • Carolyn Garcia-Martinez posted at 10:06 pm on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    CarolynDM Posts: 424

    "When Ms. Bourgois was taken down, she struck her head on the pavement". Should probably read more like, when Ms. Bourgois was thrown down, her head was slammed into the pavement.

     
  • Khal Spencer posted at 9:28 pm on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    Khal Spencer Posts: 418

    Sounds to me like another case of using Maslow's Hammer. Pierce, as usual, nails it: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

     
  • reni fritz posted at 9:07 pm on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    reni Posts: 2

    It does appear the SFNM cherry picked this story. It's not written by the regular police-beat reporter, and it is not part of ongoing coverage of excessive force complaints. The length of the story, and lack of context with regard to excessive-force complaints filed every day suggests someone is letting the paper be a mouthpiece for somebody. Really, what does the taxi-driver's psychology degree or history of working service jobs have to do with anything? She's a licensed public carrier who stopped her vehicle in a train zone, then lacked the professionalism to communicate effectively when confronted for her unprofessional behavior. Where's the story?

     
  • reni fritz posted at 9:01 pm on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    reni Posts: 2

    A professional driver who disregards markers for a train crossing provides police every reason to issue a citation. The boxes are there because trains can appear after a driver stops near the tracks. Traffic stopped behind the offending vehicle can prevent a car from backing up once a train appears. The fact that no train was there at the time is irrelevant. Can school bus drivers stop on train tracks simply because they know the train schedule?

    The fact that a professional driver disregards safety rules - at the expense of passenger safety - provides an officer reason to investigate. Such offenses often reveal a drunk or impaired driver.

    Once the stop was underway, the office had no privilege to arrest her for her attitude. He does have right to handcuff a person detained during a Terry stop (Terry v Ohio) for his safety and the safety of the detained individual. A person who resists restraints during a traffic stop may subdued with greater force. This person from the moment she stopped her car in the tracks appeared to be flouting the law. Her disregard for the public jurisdiction appeared to continue as she approached, then resisted temporary detention.

    How strange it is that so many Santa Feans who liberally advocate to expanded government control so readily take umbrage as basic traffic safety enforcement with regard to a licensed public carrier.

     
  • Julian R. Grace posted at 7:38 pm on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    Logies New Mexican Posts: 108

    Yeah, I think he did. Yeah, some do have a higher IQ, they're the ones who know they can't get away with such blatant police brutality. Forty years of experience with all sorts. Things are different now when they pursue for running a green then murder citizens because they're scared or think they're above the law or just didn't pay attention when justifiable was being taught. The people are now not only outraged but will put new restrictions on the good officers probably making it more dangerous for all. So don't protect the scared, the bullies the ones that think the people won't fix it. The police still work FOR US.

     
  • oscar michael posted at 3:33 pm on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    oscar mike Posts: 142

    You have an ignorant opinion. Do you really think officer gutierez arrived on shift that night and started searching for a 40 year old woman to abuse? I suppose in your mind he salivated and grasped his hands while he laughed "bwa ha ha ha" as he saw her stop in the rail crossing. By the way, there is not an assessment of "IQ" but if there were you might find that most officers would score higher than the average college graduate.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 12:57 pm on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    Mr. Grimler (if that is your real name)...

    I know you think that anyone who doesn't share your blind support for the police must have no LEO experience, but you'd be wrong. The training I received didn't allow for the use of force without a specific articulable threat or danger, and "but everybody could be a threat" or "but I was afraid because she wouldn't get back in her car" wouldn't have been acceptable. Of course, we also didn't go around trying to convince people that we were "warriors," either.

    And even if I didn't have LEO experience, as a taxpaying citizen I would still have the right to be critical of public employees who appear to have abused their power.

    Maybe all the police apologists here should sign up to drive a taxi and work the mean streets a while, like Dawn? It's more dangers than police work; you get to deal with all the same dangerous characters that police officers get to encounter, but without the protection of a badge, gun, or back-seat cage. Plus I'm pretty sure it pays less and doesn't have cushy municipal benefits.

    No...? Yeah, thought that might be your answer.

     
  • Michael Grimler posted at 12:16 pm on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    shooter Posts: 188

    Mr. Work (if that's your real name)...

    You sound like a very knowledgeable and brave fellow.

    How about you sign up with Santa Fe PD and work the streets a while to show us all how it should be done?

    No...? Yeah, thought that might be your answer.

     
  • Michael Grimler posted at 12:11 pm on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    shooter Posts: 188

    Oscar [thumbup]

     
  • Michael Grimler posted at 12:10 pm on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    shooter Posts: 188

    [thumbup]

     
  • Michael Grimler posted at 12:08 pm on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    shooter Posts: 188

    [thumbup]

     
  • Chris Kientz posted at 10:49 am on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    Raven Posts: 1

    I am a former LEO, 10 yrs retired and I'm appalled at some of the comments here and the ignorance displayed. As a LEO I was trained to serve the public and adhere to specific policy guidelines regarding interactions with the public. These policy specified instances where I could order an individual and expect compliance or escalate the situation if compliance isn't met. These instances included 1) When the individual is in imminent danger, threatening imminent danger to others or could reasonably be expected to be in danger if they continued their current actions. 2) If the individual is under suspicion and being detained i.e. under arrest.

    There is no other reason for me, as a LEO, to order anyone to do anything and expect compliance. If you are a LEO who expects total compliance when you issue an order outside of areas defined by policy, you need to look for another job. And if you are a member of the public who sides with LEOs who order citizens and expect total compliance you need to step up and grow a pair.

     
  • Pierce Knolls posted at 10:45 am on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    Mister Pierce Posts: 1670

    “'We do so to ensure our officers used the utmost respect and diligence when implementing techniques from the lowest level use of force to the highest,' Westervelt wrote. 'It’s a way to monitor ourselves.'”

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 9:40 am on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    "From what I can see when it involves an officer having to make a call for saving their life or dying. They are making a call to save their own vs. waiting to find out if their life is being threatened."

    But in this case there was no threat to the officer. If "they might have been a threat" is an adequate excuse for police officers to beat up and arrest every citizen they frustrate during routing interactions, we're going to need some much bigger jails.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 9:32 am on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    I know you think that anyone who doesn't always give the the police a free pass on the use of force must have no LEO experience, but believe me, I don't need to attend any Citizens Academy.

    Imagine that you're walking down the street one day, minding your own business, when a police officer tells you to stop, stand on one leg, and simultaneously rub your belly and pat your head. Are you going to obey? Is failing to obey a threat to the officer? If you don't, can the officer legally slam you to the ground, blacken your eye, and drag you off to jail?

    Obviously, when a police officer initiates contact with a member of the public, the police officer, as the trained LEO on the scene, is the individual responsible for making the threat assessment and safety decisions during that interaction. But as the person with the authority to make those calls, the police officer also has the responsibility to make the right call. When an unarmed woman ends up battered, bruised, and jailed for stepping out of her car during a stop for a minor infraction, I think the cop in question made the wrong call.

    Police officers work for the taxpaying public, and when they make a call that the public perceives as wrong, they should expect some criticism.

     
  • Frances Madeson posted at 7:41 am on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    Frances Madeson Posts: 5

    The family of a woman who was shot by a New Mexico State Police officer plans to gather April 11 at District Court in Santa Fe to “rally against the wrongful death of Jeanette Anaya.”

    It is set to begin 4 p.m. April 11 and last until 5:30 p.m. at the public space outside the courthouse, 225 Montezuma Ave.

     
  • M. Nimon posted at 7:31 am on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    Ace Posts: 1

    Wrong, no excuse for the chicken shit officer to tackle a 40 year old woman to the ground.

     
  • Stephen Rubin posted at 12:06 am on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    julesotis13 Posts: 2

    To me bottom line seems to be that a police officer should be considered a trained lethal weapon and like any should be trained and retrained to be used for self defence and for protection of citizens and to use his/her skills in such a manner. So when a woman winds up hospitalized and abused in this fashion, this trained officer is a thousand percent at fault in every way and needs to be retrained.

     
  • Stephen Rubin posted at 12:04 am on Wed, Apr 2, 2014.

    julesotis13 Posts: 2

    Jesus man....something aint right with cops and humans in new mexico right now....Dawn is a wonderful human being and this cop apparently has an issue or two. I hope he gets some justice his way and further training on how to not turn a routine traffic stop into violence. This quote from the cab company says it all perfectly "When a traffic stop for ‘improper standing’ results in a woman being physically thrown to the pavement, given a black eye and hauled off to jail, then I can’t help but wonder if the officer involved didn’t miss some opportunities to de-escalate that particular situation.”"

     
  • Julian R. Grace posted at 6:42 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Logies New Mexican Posts: 108

    The city's police review board was systematically dismantled along with our metropolitan water board. But something modeled after the city planning commission may work but we would need the assistance and leadership of one or more councillors.

     
  • Frances Madeson posted at 5:46 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Frances Madeson Posts: 5

    Is there any appetite out there for forming some kind of citizen's police watchdog group in Santa Fe? It seems like this is a crucial moment for push back against the police state ethos in NM. Do we assent to the current lawlessness or do we want it taken down about 10,000 notches?

    I've become acquainted recently with the Albuquerque chapter of A.N.S.W..E.R. and have found their work in helping people connect the police brutality dots very inspiring. Would there be any interest in pursuing this among the readers or commenters here?

     
  • Peter Neal posted at 5:24 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 284

    I suggest you attend a Citizens Academy at the Santa Fe Police Department- it will likely give you a different perspective when discussing incidents like this. I doubt it will change your mind, but it might temper your reasoning process. I would suggest the Citizens Academy for a few other posters here......
    To suggest that citizens should be able to disobey lawful commands "as long as the disobedience does not pose a threat to the Officer" begs the question: who decides whether the disobedience constitutes a threat? The citizen? The Officer? People such as yourself Monday morning quarterbacking the incident? Just do as you're told and the chance you will be "taken down" and arrested are very slim. If you still have a beef with the way the Officer conducted him/herself, then file a complaint.

     
  • Joe Martinez posted at 5:10 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Safety1st Posts: 1

    Hahahahahaha! Wow! Really?

    "In order to be effective, a police officer must have confidence in his abilities,"... "When an officer substitutes aggressive paranoia"

    Do me a favor Mr. Work look up videos of when officers trust the public to be civil and abiding citizens and see how they get shot at and killed during routine stops because they have trust and faith in citizens that they are going to do the right thing. Watch how quickly everything can go wrong in the matters of seconds. And tell me how much reaction time that officer had to save his life. Because why? Because he didn't treat the parties involved with more as you would call it "paranoia."

    And "people are beaten and arrested for every instance of disobeying a police officer." When did this start occurring? From what I can see when it involves an officer having to make a call for saving their life or dying. They are making a call to save their own vs. waiting to find out if their life is being threatened.

    Call it what you wanna call it. But every time I've been witness to someone acting with "common sense" and listening no problems follow.

    And where I've been witness to people not complying then the having to be restrained, taken down or arrested follows.

    Maybe in "your world" this is okay.

    Go on a ride along one of these nights and see what the people who risk their lives deal with on a daily

     
  • Julian R. Grace posted at 5:10 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Logies New Mexican Posts: 108

    I don't think officer Gutierrez was afraid. He got a chance to abuse a woman and couldn't resist. A lapel cam would be perfect in this situation. Did anyone see the bully that shoved the ASU student? He was afraid, blindsiding an innocent. Some cops like to harm and subdue. It makes them feel powerful. But anyone who doesn't see this story for what it is is just making excuses most likely because they wanted to be a cop but couldn't pass the psych evaluation. By the way, policeman does not require even average IQ, just be able to write.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 2:38 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    "Again, how does the officer know I'm not going to harm him. Oh that's right they have special powers where they have x-ray vision and can read minds, right?!" - In order to be effective, a police officer must have confidence in his abilities, in his situational awareness, and in his training. When an officer substitutes aggressive paranoia for confidence, awareness, and training, he quickly loses the public's trust.


    "And it's okay to not listen to a cop and not be taken to jail?" - You know what it's called when you have state in which people are beaten and arrested for every instance of disobeying a police officer, regardless of whether that disobedience creates a real threat or otherwise breaks the law? It's called a totalitarian police state.

     
  • oscar michael posted at 2:28 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    oscar mike Posts: 142

    You have much to learn young padowan....

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 2:02 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    You're right. Being a police officer is a dangerous job. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, it's almost as dangerous a job as driving a taxi.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 1:56 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    "Cool, quote Mrs. Westervelt while you dis -obey the command, and let us know how that worked out for you." - As a general rule, I obey police officers. But failing to obey one in a way that isn't a real threat to anyone doesn't seem to merit a police beating.

    "Its also not a crime to open carry a handgun, but you wont see me doing that near a police substation or in a large crowd with police watching." - So you think police can't be trusted to respect an American's 2nd Amendment rights? That's not very reassuring.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 1:41 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    I find your name ironic. Obviously, it's not the safety of the public you're concerned about patrolling.

    No one is criticizing the police officers who risk their lives "with all the idiots on the streets" everyday. We're criticizing a cop who is so "apprehensive" about a woman getting out of her car during a routine and minor traffic stop that he felt he had to bounce her face off the pavement, give her a black eye, and haul her to jail for it.

     
  • oscar michael posted at 1:35 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    oscar mike Posts: 142

    Cool, quote Mrs. Westervelt while you dis -obey the command, and let us know how that worked out for you. Its also not a crime to open carry a handgun, but you wont see me doing that near a police substation or in a large crowd with police watching. Use some common sense and you can avoid being contacted in the first place!

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 1:28 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    Since Boyd appeared to be complying with the police officers, it looks like they were in fact successfully reasoning with him. And since he appeared to by complying, I don't think he deserved to be shot with either live rounds or bean bags, or have a dog sicced on him.

    Boyd finally obeyed and they killed him anyway. But that's okay with you, right? Because he was just a mentally ill hobo, right? Reinforcing police dominion over the citizenry is always more important than the life of one mentally ill hobo, right?

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 1:20 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    Santa Fe Police Department spokeswoman Celina Westervelt clearly and specifially tells us that getting out of the vehicle, even after being told not to, is “not a crime."

     
  • oscar michael posted at 1:06 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    oscar mike Posts: 142

    How to avoid physical confrontation with police officers.
    1. If they tell you to please stay in the vehicle, say yes and stay in the vehicle...
    2. If they tell you to drop the weapon, say ok and drop what is in your hand.
    3. If they tell you to keep your hands out of your pockets, say yes and do not reach inside your pockets.
    4. If they ask you to leave the area or face arrest, say ok and leave the area.
    5. If they ask you to exit your vehicle, do not attempt to drive away from them.
    Aside from being in the wrong place at the wrong time, it is usually your actions that require a police officer to come into contact with you. Be aware of what those actions were, take responsibility for them and avoid making the same mistakes.

     
  • Steve Salazar posted at 1:05 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Steve Salazar Posts: 871

    Did he deserve to be shot with live rounds before the bean bags?

     
  • Steve Salazar posted at 1:05 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Steve Salazar Posts: 871

    So you really think that the police can reason with a badly mentally ill person?

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 1:03 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    So we agree that once Boyd started to obey the police and comply with their instructions, they shot him dead? Because that seems to contradict that your earlier assertion that one is safe from police brutality as lone as one obeys the police.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 1:01 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    Being disobedient isn't a capital crime. Being mentally ill and wasting three hours of police time isn't a capital crime. Having a prior record isn't a capital crime. The truly sad part is after they spent all that time trying to gain his compliance, once he was finally complying they shot him dead.

     
  • oscar michael posted at 12:53 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    oscar mike Posts: 142

    That's the 20 seconds of the confrontation you saw. Ever think about the 3 hours prior to that climax? He was so obedient that they needed a crisis team and state police to show up and beg his compliance. He would not have needed to be confronted with such force if he had not been such a model citizen in his past dealings with police. Read his record.

     
  • vincent saiz posted at 12:45 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    vin e Posts: 17

    fire the BUM
    the bum being Santa Fe Police officer Jose Gutierrez

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 12:44 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    What does a model citizen look like?

    Civilians can often be counted upon to rant and rave, get hysterical, and generally make a situation worse, especially if they dare to think that they might have some basic rights. Professional law enforcement officers are the responsible party when they instigate contact with civilians, and they need to be confidently prepared for the vagaries of civilians, not "apprehensive" or fearful.

     
  • Steve Salazar posted at 12:43 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Steve Salazar Posts: 871

    The order was flash bang, dog, live rounds and then the bean bags. They might have tasered his already dead body.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 12:32 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    A good police officer can prioritize. This police officer's priorities seem incongruous with actually making the community safer, and with encouraging people in the community to trust and respect the police.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 12:26 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    Judging by the video, James Boyd was obeying the police when they simultaneously hit him with stun grenades, beanbags, and tasers, and sicced a dog on him, and shot him at least six times with assault rifles.

     
  • Steve Salazar posted at 12:02 pm on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Steve Salazar Posts: 871

    Can a police officer pull double duty, look for drunk drivers and traffic offenders at the same time?

     
  • Steve Salazar posted at 11:59 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Steve Salazar Posts: 871

    I've been reading that if you obey the police, this won't happen. But can a mentally ill person obey the police commands?

     
  • Andrew Lucero posted at 11:39 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Andrew Lucero Posts: 128

    [thumbup]

     
  • oscar michael posted at 11:28 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    oscar mike Posts: 142

    Not to make light of the injuries received by this woman, but why exactly is the santa fe new mexican cherry picking cases to cover. Many other individuals have suffered the same consequence for not obeying orders and choosing to vent frustration toward an officer. Is the new mexican trying to provoke anger toward the SFPD? Seems like their coverage and opinions of late are for the sole purpose of dividing the community and stirring animosity toward police officers.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 11:12 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    "Disobey a command and either get bit by a canine or get your ass kicked....your choice."

    What a wonderful example of exactly the kind of arrogant thuggery that the citizenry seems to be rejecting in New Mexico nowadays. It's not the job of the police to mete out punishment. Having the police dish out beatings (or instigate dog attacks) as punishment for disobeying is contrary to everything our justice system is supposed to stand for.

     
  • Meredith Madri posted at 10:34 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    FilmArtPhoto Posts: 34

    Acting annoyed and upset that you got pulled over doesn't warrant having your face smashed into the pavement. This is not acceptable, even if the woman did not "do as she was told". This wasn't an armed and dangerous thug who needed to be restrained. The police officer should have kept his ego in check..

     
  • John Cole posted at 10:29 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    JCole Posts: 8

    I agree with Mr. Knowles regarding the ability to de-escalate potentially bad situations.

    Of course Ms. Bourgeois was annoyed. In truth, all of us are when pulled over.

    Quickly reading over these comments tells me our police department has a lot of work to do to better their stance within our community.

    They can start by reversing the departments years of training as first line terrorist responders to serving the public interest. Serving the public tax-payer does not reflect well when an officer is suspicious.

    Being smart includes an ability to not over-react, maintain control by de-escalating understandable frustrations. Being intelligent includes compassion, while staying aware.

    Did Gutierrez have enough time -- coming from a rural community to an urban environment -- to understand the differences he could expect? Did he have a well trained partner?

     
  • Joseph Hempfling posted at 9:59 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    joehempfling Posts: 188

    Poor Judgement, Poor Reaction, and even worse Behavior by one of Santa Fe's so-called public servants and against a female Cabdriver no less at the worst intersection in this town; St Francis and Cerrillos. What is wrong with this picture?? EVERYTHING. AND THE UNNECESSARY USE OF EXCESSIVE FORCE, MAKES IT WORSE ! Wait until you see the CHECK we will be writing for this one ! And the video should be interesting and be a definite turnoff to anyone thinking about visiting the City Different !
    Thanks Officer for the Publicity !!

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 9:46 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    This happened right before the bars closed on a Saturday night. Is pulling over one of our community's professional designated drivers for stopping too close to the tracks, at a time of night when it is commonly known that no train is going to cross, more important than maybe patrolling for the many drunk drivers who decided not to call a cab? Again, SFPD's priorities don't seem to be aligning with the very real needs of the community on this one.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 9:28 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    I have complete confidence that you really do hope that the police fabricate some trumped up charges against a citizen who dares to think that getting out of one's car doesn't getting "pile drived into the concrete."

     
  • Steve Salazar posted at 9:24 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Steve Salazar Posts: 871

    The sign above the "boxes" is real clear, even if the markings on the pavement are not.

     
  • Alfred Padilla posted at 9:15 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Xenoace32 Posts: 339

    My reply was to Grace not you Mr. Neal I agree with your post by the way.
    [smile]

     
  • Sonja C. Wilson posted at 9:12 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Aunt Bunny Posts: 7

    [thumbup]

     
  • Sonja C. Wilson posted at 9:10 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Aunt Bunny Posts: 7

    [thumbup]

     
  • Sonja C. Wilson posted at 9:10 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Aunt Bunny Posts: 7

    [thumbup]

     
  • Sonja C. Wilson posted at 9:08 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Aunt Bunny Posts: 7

    [thumbdown]

     
  • Sonja C. Wilson posted at 9:07 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Aunt Bunny Posts: 7

    disgusting.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 9:04 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    I look forward to seeing that video when it gets posted to YouTube.

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 9:02 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    Peter Neal, I didn't say it wasn't a legitimate traffic stop. But considering that this happened right before the bars closed on a Saturday night, is pulling over one of our community's professional designated drivers for stopping too close to the tracks, when no train is going to cross, more important than maybe patrolling for the many drunk drivers who decided not to call a cab? SFPD's priorities don't seem to be aligning with the very real needs of the community on this one.

     
  • Peter Neal posted at 8:59 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 284

    I said she "looked" like she was not a model citizen, and probably shares some of the blame for escalating this situation. That is a far cry from automatically assigning ALL blame on the Officer as some here are doing- without having all the facts.

     
  • Alfred Padilla posted at 8:57 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Xenoace32 Posts: 339

    Oh give it a rest, if you dont want to get pile drived into the concrete stay in your freaking car. People need to stop testing the cops and expecting to get treated with kid gloves. Hope they charge her with assaulting a Police officer.
    [angry]

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 8:48 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    Santa Fe Police Department spokeswoman Celina Westervelt clearly tells us that getting out of the vehicle, even after being told not to, is “not a crime."

    If an unarmed woman makes a full-grown pistol-packing police officer "apprehensive" enough that he feels the need to slam her to the ground and give her a black eye, then maybe he lacks the self confidence and constitutional fortitude that the public requires of its protectors.

    And speaking of walking the thin line, driving a taxi is one of the few jobs consistently considered by OSHA and the Workers’ Compensation Administration to be more dangerous than being a police officer, and taxi drivers do that job without the protection of a badge and a gun: http://www.businessinsider.com/most-dangerous-jobs-in-america-2013-8?op=1

     
  • Alfred Padilla posted at 8:45 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Xenoace32 Posts: 339


    Ohhh practice what you preach I say!
    [ohmy]

     
  • Peter Neal posted at 8:42 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 284

    I'm guessing that there is dash cam video of this incident- so the truth will probably come out. In the meantime, a lot of comments here are already giving the cabbie a pass because she was "frustrated". If she was ordered multiple times to get back in her car and refused to do so, either by actions or words, then that goes beyond "frustration", and the Officer had a duty to restrain and/or arrest her. At the point he began to place hands on her to effect a lawful arrest, SHE could have de - escalated the situation by not resisting. Everyone wants to blame an Officer 100% when a situation goes south- based on initial reports- it looks like she was not a model citizen in this unfortunate incident. I suggest commenter's who are labeling the Officer a bully (or rapist, as one moron did), wait until audio or video is available, then make an informed judgement.

     
  • Alfred Padilla posted at 8:26 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Xenoace32 Posts: 339

    Let me also add that if this was a Hispanic male being pulled over this story would have never made the front page. A pathetic attempt by the New Mexican to garnish sympathy it seems.
    [thumbdown]

     
  • Peter Neal posted at 8:24 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    PeterNeal Posts: 284

    Using your "logic", we should be able to run red lights when there are no vehicles around, right?

     
  • hotrod8691 posted at 8:18 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    hotrod8691 Posts: 6

    Get a rope. These cops are out of control. Come on Mr. Mayor Gonzales do we really need a cop like him, in this city of bleeding hearts. Get rid of him now.

     
  • Alfred Padilla posted at 8:15 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Xenoace32 Posts: 339

    She should have stayed in her vehicle and followed orders. Stop making excuses for bad behavior and grow up already. Its bad enough cops are walking a thin line don't make it worse by acting the fool.[angry]

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 8:09 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    I wonder how many potential drunk drivers the average taxi driver gets safely home on a Saturday night? I wonder how that compares to the number of DWI arrests any particular SFPD officer makes on a Saturday night?

     
  • Lewis Work posted at 8:03 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lewis Work Posts: 78

    I suspect that any experienced cabbie also knows the train schedule, too. The last train to pass through that intersection on a Saturday night is the Southbound train that departs from the Railyard at 10:00 pm, two and a half hours before this incident began.

     
  • Julian R. Grace posted at 7:45 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Logies New Mexican Posts: 108

    Steve, are you a bully?

     
  • Julian R. Grace posted at 7:43 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Logies New Mexican Posts: 108

    Restrain her? You Mr. Gutierrez are a bully and have no business being in the uniform of a city police officer. You need to take the liability course through the risk management division. When a citizen displays frustration you have no right to brutalize her. When will this stop? The bullies did the same to me thirty years ago.

     
  • Thom Wilson posted at 7:03 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Oldbikerider Posts: 6

    At least this didn't happen in Albuquerque!

     
  • Steve Salazar posted at 7:00 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Steve Salazar Posts: 871

    Unless this was her first time on that street, she knew about the boxes.

     
  • Lisa Belinda posted at 6:09 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Lisa Belinda Posts: 6

    NM where you can be assaulted with impunity by everyone. ESPECIALLY the police farce.

     
  • Paul White posted at 6:07 am on Tue, Apr 1, 2014.

    Pabloblanco Posts: 45

    The "boxes" for the train crossing markings are barely legible and very confusing. I would think the City needs to work on that issue. They only repaint them once a year if even that.

    The officer was clearly out of control of the situation. Even if she really was being surly the officer should know how to de escalate the situation.

    But it seems that there is no indoctrination program available for these police?
    A few lawsuits should help get the City's attention.

     

Follow The Santa Fe New Mexican

Today’s New Mexican, July 23, 2014

To view a replica of today's printed edition of The Santa Fe New Mexican, you must be a subscriber. Get complete access to the online edition, including the print replica, at our low rate of $2.49 a week. That's about the price of a cup of coffee. Or get online and home delivery of our print edition for $3.24. Click here for details.  

Advertisement